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Dirty barrel.

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    Posted: January 05 2024 at 4:20am
The bore scope tells me that the barrel on the Resistance No4mk1 is black and crusty. It was stored for over 70 years, so obviously some old fouling and I suspect rust.
I have decided to try electrolysis to remove and loosen the crap. 
My local armoury gifted me a solution for the process. So I will set up a DIY rig and see how it goes. 
One point that seems odd to me; having looked at several examples of this method on the net. Most say use the "positive" on the barrel and negative on the cleaning rod. But my brain is telling me that current flow is from negative to positive, so I would expect it to be negative to barrel, positive to the rod. 
Anyone actually used this method sucessfully ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 5:24am
Years ago, I used an Outers product called “Foul Out”. It seemed to work, battery powered. I did not have a borescope in those days, so no way to really verify it was working, but some copper did get deposited on the rod. It had colour coded connectors. 

 I think the direction of current flow depends on if it’s “charging” with a battery hooked up, or if it’s “discharging” with a load hooked up. I think the rod would be the cathode with the negative connection.  If you reversed the connections, it might erode the rod.  There were two solutions, one for removing copper and the other for removing lead. Powder fouling has to be removed first, or it won’t work. The rod must be periodically removed, cleaned off, degreased, and refill with new solution. 

I stopped using it as I think it may have caused some rusting and pitting in the bore by leaving it hooked up too long. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 5:52am
I use it regularly on anything rusty that needs a good clean.  Most recently, I used it on a 6Lb AP projectile.  The part being cleaned will turn black (or at least a dark grey) and will rust very quickly afterwards, so will need to be oiled quickly.  I would try with a test piece to see if you are happy with the result.  to do the inside of a barrel, you will need a non-conductive stopper at each end, to ensure the anode and cathode do not touch.  If your voltage source has an ammeter on it, watch and see when the current draw drops.  Once this happens, run under hot water to flush out all the crud and scrub with a brush.  Rinse and repeat, as they say.

The negative does indeed connect to the part that you wish to clean as you are breaking the bond between iron and oxygen.  As oxygen is negatively charged, it is attracted to the positive anode (very basic overview).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 9:27am
Thanks Geoff.
I may test the system on a short piece of rust steel pipe; just to confirm the polarity effect and solution strength etc. 
I made a power source using a 15 volt 0.5amp charger from a LED inspection lamp. It should work quickly with this voltage.
Hopefully get chance to test it at the weekend; depending on the Honey- do list! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 10:15am
IIRC the electrolysis works by changing the electron sheIIs in the material to be removed, adding or subtracting one from the outer sheII depending on what material it is?
If I'm right it's quite possible its electron stripping intentionally?Geek
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 1:09pm
Thankyou for your reply Mayhem .  I'm pleased that you confirmed the polarity. I have read several articles on the net and many people have it wrong. Anyway I will do some testing to get an idea of time required and efficiency of the solution. It seem household ammonia, white vinegar and water is a common mixture. I do have a bottle of f Cop Out for the barrel. But maybe use that in the final go after using the DIY mix.
Anyway, I appreciate the help. I'll post details when I get it done.
Currently busy with decorating as well so time is a premium at the moment!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 4:52pm
I use soda ash, which is cheap and readily available from hardware and pool supply stores.  I just mix it in with water until the solution is saturated.  One thing I forgot to mention is that if your charger needs to see some voltage in order to start charging (as most new chargers do) then it won't work.  If you have an old transformer battery charger, that is the way to go.  

Here is a trigger assembly from a MH rifle that had been converted to 303, only to have someone discard it in the desert when a she!! casing got stuck.  At some point it has been driven over and has two bends in the barrel.  I have disassembled the action and slowly running the parts through the electrolysis tank to clean them up.  The trigger isn't freed up yet but I have gotten enough rust off the block to now see the retaining screw for the firing pin.  The rifle and action body has been sectioned and I plan to section the block once I can get the firing pin out.  It should make a nice wall hanger once done.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2024 at 11:27pm
I will have to see what "soda ash" is in French. It's not always easy finding the same products. 
Regarding the charger; the one I have does show voltage at the clips when testing with a volt meter. However I will check with it connected. I do have an older style 12 car battery charger if needed.
A trip to the hardware store this morning!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2024 at 12:13am
Sodium carbonate is the active ingredient. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2024 at 11:39am
I checked my Outers Foul Out instructions and it’s as I expected, the red positive lead is connected to the barrel/action and black negative to the electrode rod. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2024 at 12:42pm
 Sodium carbonate Na2CO3. a.k.a. "washing soda"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2024 at 2:44pm
I'm not familiar with that product and I'll have to Google it.  I assume it is yet another product that we don't get down here.

I have provided what I use for rust removal and what works for me but I am mindful of what I use it on, as it does leave the piece black, as shown in my pictures.  I have never attempted my method on a barrel, which is why I recommended using a test piece.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2024 at 5:13am
I started testing this morning; using a rusty steel pipe, a new steel rod and my 15volt 0.5 amp charger. I used the following solution: household ammonia, white vinegar and water. Mixed in equal parts.
The solution starts fizzing immediately when the current is on. It slows after 10-12 minutes. I carried out two 12 minute sessions on this piece.
This was connected Negative to the rusty pipe and Positive to the clean rod. 
The solution turned rusty brown and the pipe is definitely cleaner. 
But I will test with Sodium carbonate. 
Regarding the different polarity mentioned in the various techniques; could it be due to what we are trying to remove? Would Copper removal require the opposite polarity to rust?
I will post some pics, but can't do it from my phone ! Files are too big.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2024 at 6:18am
Good question.  I’ve come across both polarity hookups in articles on the net, doesn’t make sense.  What did the rod look like? 

I would be cautious Shaun, last thing you want to do is pit the barrel.  If it were me, I’d use JB. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2024 at 11:26am
Geoff, my Armoury didn't have JB; but they suggested Bore tech Cameleon Gel. So I will give it a go.
 I have not tried it yet. The Armourer also gave me a bottle of "Cop Out" and suggested the electrolysis. He showed me some bore scope images of a 30.06 that he had used this method on. 
I showed him the bore image of the Maltby. He thought it could be effective. 
This rifle was stored for around 70 years. I will continue testing the method before making a final decision. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2024 at 12:34pm
The articles I've checked say (for rust removal), However copper may be different because of the structure. Different anodes cathodes chemical solutions & metals will all have their own particular setup.
"
  1. Attach the positive (red) clip of the battery charger or power source to the rusted object, making sure it has direct contact with the rusty area.
  2. Attach the negative (black) clip of the battery charger or power source to the sacrificial electrode. The electrode should be immersed in the electrolyte solution but not touching the rusted object.
  3. https://removemania.com/how-to-remove-rust-with-electrolysis/
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