Irish Contract Enfield |
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sjuhockey10
Senior Member Joined: November 24 2012 Location: MN, USA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Posted: December 11 2012 at 8:26am |
This is getting to be an expensive undertaking
12/53 production No. 4 Mk 2.
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Canuck
Special Member Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Agassiz BC Status: Offline Points: 3535 |
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SUPER!!!
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ArcherSix
Senior Member Joined: March 05 2009 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 317 |
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Very Nice, looks really clean.
And now I'm curious. What makes this an 'Irish Contract' rifle, and what's the significance of that?
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sjuhockey10
Senior Member Joined: November 24 2012 Location: MN, USA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Certain serial number blocks of No. 4 Mk 2s produced at Fazakerly in 1953/54 were allocated to various parts of the Empire. 50,000 of them were slated to go to Ireland, but due to the political climate tree rifles were never delivered. This rifle is within that serial number block.
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SW28fan
Special Member Donating Member Joined: July 02 2007 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2951 |
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Many 1950s production rifles are called Irish Contract particularly the one that came unissued in the mummy wrap but as the proud owner above said the Irish contract had a specific serial number range: PF309348-PF359747 |
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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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There is a lot of debate about the "Irish Contract Rifles"to say the least. Some swear they were at least partially delivered & so on. Here's the quick 'n dirty summary of the saga from various websites.
==================================== http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=34901 The so called "Irish Contract" rifles are in the
serial range PF309348 to PF 359347.Most were never delivered and put in storage
until sold as surplus. http://www.arrse.co.uk/shooting-hunting-fishing/96133-questions-about-lee-enfield-mk4-no-2-a.html The changeover from Mk1 to Mk2 production is believed to
have occurred at rifle number "PF 100000". Royal Ordnance Factory Fazakerley Did I just find something interesting? http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=61726606 In relation to Lee Enfield No.4s
'Irish Contract'. I've seen this mentioned in other, often American forums and
invariably they quote some guy called Stratton who said "...The rifle was
manufactured for the Irish Republic, but because of political problems (duh)
the rifle was never delivered and was kept in storage. Well (duh) I don't recall any
political problems in 1953 that would have stopped the delivery of those
rifles. I can't help but think it's one of those myths that grew legs. So does anyone here know the
truth? Was there an Irish contract that was never delivered or were they in
fact war surplus British stocks as suggested by some. Or are they in fact
actually surplus ex Irish army never issued and sold on to America? AFAIK what are referred to as
"Irish Contract" are the ones sold by the Irish Government after the
FCA were given the FN http://www.vcrai.com/phpBB/phpBB3/index.php (The Irish Classic rifle forum) and you will get more info Pedroibar, I can safely that I
never saw a .303 dated earlier than the 1950s when I was in the FCA. Some were
actually 'new' out of the wrapping and dated 1953. They were all No.4 rifles.
The ones you refer to must be No.IIIs and were probably issued to the army in
the 1940s until replaced by the No.4s probably in the 50s. In reality the "Irish
contract" rifles were nothing more than rifles that had the FF Oglich
na Eireinn stamp on them. They ran a specific serial number.[Cant remember
what it is] Irish Contract "Blondes"
dated 1950 - 1955 with the PF serial number where sold to Century Arms in the
U.S. for £10 punts a rifle I believe. These where the ones stored in Ireland.
There was I believe a consignment of Irish Contract Rifles held in the UK that
where manufactured in the Fazerkly plant but the consignment never left the UK |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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sjuhockey10
Senior Member Joined: November 24 2012 Location: MN, USA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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Thanks for all the info, Shamu. I've read some of that here and there, but some new info in there as well.
This rifle looks like it may have been delivered or issued at some point, as there are a few dings here and there that appear to be fairly old, but who knows. Here's this mark on the forward part of the receiver, which I've seen on other Irish Contract rifles. No one seems to know what it is, though I've seen speculation of it being the Irish "harp" emblem. |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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nice grab , you are on a role , and congrats thats a really nice example , i see you have been adequately informed on the "irish" thing so ill not add to the above ,
i never got any excitement from the "irish" thing , but i appreciate that many have and its fun when i see someone get one , my mk2 is of the burma contract , i did pick up a nice FTR mkI/2 and am looking for the mkI*/3 , and yes this is an addiction that can get a bit costly if indulged to its fullest ,
one thing i found that helps control that urge to buy every one you lay eyes on is to lay out your theme early on , some like the idea of collecting every year of production of a certain model , others one of every manufacturer , i like geting a nice example of each model/mark that i can find without regard to mfgr or year produced ,
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sjuhockey10
Senior Member Joined: November 24 2012 Location: MN, USA Status: Offline Points: 121 |
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To be honest, I don't really get a huge thrill out of the Irish bit either. I was looking for a No. 4 Mk 2 in general when I stumbled across this one, and since other people do value the (potentially non-existant) Irish connection, it seemed like a worthwhile piece to pick up. If nothing else, I won't be losing money on the deal. I'm still working on adding some sort of perspective to my collection. My initial intent was leaning towards the earlier models, since the No. 1 is what I really fell in love with originally, but I seem to be gathering up No. 4s -- what a horrid fate
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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i suspect that had you taken the no1 angle you would still have gone to the no4 & 5 eventually anyway so its good that you are open to the idea when these nice examples are presenting themselves , one must jump on them when they are found or we miss out
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cruisedub
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All Irish contract Lee Enfield's were sold as surplus by the Irish Government to Interarms of Canada . They were disposed of in several batches , the myth that they not delivered due to political troubles is just that , a myth .
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A square 10
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thats an interesting spin on the theme i had not heard , what did interarms do with them and how did so many end up here in the states ?
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cruisedub
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The Irish Department of Defense sold the rifles to interarms in the following order
1991___ 5,889 1993___ 20,000 1994___ 8,000 1996/97___ 16,000 How they were distributed by Interarms I don't know . Also it's probable that some Mk4T are still held in storage in Ireland , at least there were up until about eight years ago . They were held in a armoury just south of the border with the six counties .My source for this information is someone who saw them in storage . Just as an aside Lee Enfield No1 mark 3 were still in service with the Irish Army reserve up until 1973 and maybe beyond . They were equipped with a Energa grenade launcher and used solely for that purpose .There were also .22 No1 mk3 used as trainers at that time . |
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mike16
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Has anybody ever asked the Irish themselves if they received any rifles.
There was no "political Troubles" with the republic itself. The troubles themselves refer to the north....the occupied north what does Skennerton say? I too have an Irish contract No.4 Mk2. |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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This should be easy enough to prove or disprove.
When did the sale take place, more importantly when were they imported into the U.S? "The Irish Department of Defense sold the rifles to interarms in the following order 1991___ 5,889
1993___ 20,000 1994___ 8,000 1996/97___ 16,000" If there's an "Irish Contract" Enfield without an Interarms import mark then its suspect, particularly as we know the serial numbers. Has anyone a record of one purchased before these import dates? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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would like to point out that i was not questioning the posters truethfulness , my questions were meant to expand the conversation for the edification of all , i do appreciate hearing of the source tho as it adds to the info ,
i would love to hear from those that have an irish contract who the import marking is on their individual rifles to expand the conversation further , with the posted dates i think all will be marked , in tiurn just for chits and giggles im going to check out my burma contract rifle ....if i can get to it ,
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