1937 BSA civillian? |
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mike16
Groupie Joined: June 19 2014 Location: Bisbee Arizona Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Posted: October 19 2014 at 12:25pm |
I just picked up a 1937 BSA. barrel, rear sight and reciever all have matching 5 digit serial number 25xxx. verry nice bore. all civillian proofs and stamps. Very nice but over restored wood. evidence(?) of middle east provenance: in place of the unit brass disc is a coin from a middle east country,unknown. cost to me yesterday: $325.00.where to find civilian production info? I understand the only produced about 4-7k rifles a year for civilians market. is it worth restoring back to civillian condition? where to find parts for a '37 BSA? need wood
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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First off, post some pictures. I would like to see the markings on it. I want to compare it to a '39 BSA I have that has some commercial stuff on it as well but it was a military rifle at one time.
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Lithgow
Senior Member Joined: October 25 2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1417 |
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I may be wrong but if it is date stamped then it was more than likely made for the military. If it was sold out of service in the UK then it will have civilian proof marks.
it may have been turned into a civilian rifle after being sold out of service.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Does it have a large crown (royal cypher) or initials like "G.R." on it anywhere?
If it does then its not civilian originally, but may have been sold after military service to a gunsmith who reworked it for civilian use as a sporter. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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The one I have (and the reason I wanted to see this guy's) is a military rifle with a civilian BSA barrel and civilian proofs as well. However, the barrel also has military proofs. I think that BSA re-barreled military rifles from their civilian stock of barrels to get rifles back in action. I have never seen any proof of this, but it does make sense considering the dire need of functional rifles at the outset of WW II. |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Makes even more sense when you factor in HM.Gov grabbing civilian BSA's that might have been military originally then sold to BSA who built civvie sporters on them before the .GOV grabbed 'em back!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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mike16
Groupie Joined: June 19 2014 Location: Bisbee Arizona Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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pictures pending.......
The barrel is not so nice as I once thought. kinda looks like no mans land between the trenches in WWI Under the bolt handle it is stamped GR and the date 1937 along with BSA the shte mkIII it has the slot for the magazine cut off as well. isn't that a bit strange for a rifle made in 1937? I always thought the cut off was phased out of production way back in WWI? as much as I can tell its all civilian proof marks the barrel, receiver, are blued and not painted and have not been re blued. |
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Bear43
Special Member Donating Member Joined: August 11 2010 Location: Doland, SD Status: Offline Points: 3059 |
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Having the crown and the year on it means it was a military rifle at one point. So while it may have some civilian proofs on it there should be military inspection marks on it at the very least. As for the cutoff slot, in between the wars the cutoffs were put back on for a while. I don't have the book in front of me right now to tell you the years it was brought back and then discontinued again.
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mike16
Groupie Joined: June 19 2014 Location: Bisbee Arizona Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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pictures coming.......
where is a good place to buy spares. it seems that over in the UK there would be more parts availability? is that a correct assumption? anybody have problems importing spares for the enfield? are parts to a BSA commercial difficult or different from the military versions. parts now... not the receiver or barrel. What is the story on the Iraqi Contract enfields .... supposedly delivered in the 30's?
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W.R.Buchanan
Senior Member Joined: September 21 2014 Location: Ojai CA Status: Offline Points: 373 |
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Mike: many places to get parts here in the US. Sarco, Numrich, Apex, Liberty Tree, BRP, and Springfield Sporters.
Randy
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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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mike16
Groupie Joined: June 19 2014 Location: Bisbee Arizona Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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yes,
being new to this restoration side of the business, I'm asking a lot of questions. in retrospect I think I might have paid too mush at 300 for this rifle. I knew enough about the civilian sales and the improved quality in the inter war years so I recognized the uniqueness of this rifle.the hardware is worn. the wood is beautiful but sadly it looks like it was wet sanded to the point where it has lost its contours. I have an Irish No.4Mk 2 but always liked the No.3's. anyway... ordered skennerton's enfield book. are there unique differences in the commercial BSA's parts? I want to restore this one to 1937 BSA commercial specs. If the BSA parts are unique to this rifle where are the vendors that support resto's ? Also.... very curious about the Commercial/Iraqi serial number range in the mid 30's. I have found a few threads here and there on the Iraqi contract. Mostly vague speculation with no supporting evidence. I'm not getting my hopes up but I suspect this might be one of those rifles. significant evidence that this rifle was in Iraq , certainly up through the late 50's. thank you PaddyO'furniture for your Pm too! pictures soon to follow... I promise. what about purchasing spares from overseas? any problems there? thanks every one! for your help. also. I have not shot it yet and don't know about the accuracy of the rifle. but the barrel is rough. I know that they can sometime shoot pretty good with a very bad barrel and one can only hope. my question is.... since the serial number on the rifle matches the serial number on the barrel. would the rifle retain greater value with a shot out barrel that matches or a new barrel(?). |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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There were several "versions" of the commercial BSA's. In fact for a while you could not have a No1 MkIII SMLE in .303 British unless you were a "Citizen of the U.K. Or its colonies"
Maybe this will give you some ideas! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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W.R.Buchanan
Senior Member Joined: September 21 2014 Location: Ojai CA Status: Offline Points: 373 |
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Mike: pretty sure all the small piece parts on the gun are common to all guns, I recall reading that the only numbered parts are the receiver, bolt and sometimes magazine. All the rest are just piece parts.
The wood is going to be a problem, and I have not found anyone commercial who is making anything close to what that gun needs. Military wood is plentiful. Detailed pictures of the gun would help us help you decide which way to go. Randy
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It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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& the nose cap on a No1, forend on a no4.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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You could e-mail EFD rifles in the UK for wood, they may have something. Not sure about import for wooden parts though; I heard there are customs regulations!
EFD were doing wood for the No8 rifles a while back, I believe the No8 hand guard's were modified for the later L42A1 rifle so could have potential for a nice sporter.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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Iraqi ownership/issue stamp is a triangle with a sort of squared off reversed "S" in the centre.
Found on page 587 of my Skennerton edition.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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