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1937 BSA civillian?

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mike16 View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 19 2014 at 12:25pm
 
I just picked up a 1937 BSA.
barrel, rear sight and reciever all have matching 5 digit  serial number 25xxx.
verry nice bore.
all civillian proofs and stamps. 
Very nice but  over restored wood.
evidence(?) of middle east provenance: in place of the unit brass disc is a coin from a middle east country,unknown.
cost to me yesterday: $325.00.
 
where to find civilian production info? I understand the only produced about 4-7k rifles a year for civilians market.
 
is it worth restoring back to civillian condition?
 
where to find parts for a '37 BSA? need wood
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2014 at 5:15pm
First off, post some pictures. I would like to see the markings on it. I want to compare it to a '39 BSA I have that has some commercial stuff on it as well but it was a military rifle at one time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 20 2014 at 4:37pm
I may be wrong but if it is date stamped then it was more than likely made for the military. If it was sold out of service in the UK then it will have civilian proof marks.
it may have been turned into a civilian rifle after being sold out of service.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 6:11am
Does it have a large crown (royal cypher) or initials like "G.R." on  it anywhere?
If it does then its not civilian originally, but may have been sold after military service to a gunsmith who reworked it for civilian use as a sporter.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 11:48am

The one I have (and the reason I wanted to see this guy's) is a military rifle with a civilian BSA barrel and civilian proofs as well. However, the barrel also has military proofs. I think that BSA re-barreled military rifles from their civilian stock of barrels to get rifles back in action. I have never seen any proof of this, but it does make sense considering the dire need of functional rifles at the outset of WW II.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 1:13pm
Makes even more sense when you factor in HM.Gov grabbing civilian BSA's that might have been military originally then sold to BSA who built civvie sporters on them before the .GOV grabbed 'em back!Wacko
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 3:20pm
pictures pending.......
The barrel  is not so nice as I once thought.
 
kinda looks like no mans land between the trenches in WWI
 
Under the bolt handle it is stamped GR and the date 1937 along with BSA the shte mkIII
 
it has the slot for the magazine cut off as well. isn't that a bit strange for a rifle made in 1937? I always thought the cut off was phased out of production way back in WWI?
 
as much as I can tell its all civilian proof marks
 
the barrel, receiver, are blued and not painted  and have not been re blued.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2014 at 6:39pm
Having the crown and the year on it means it was a military rifle at one point. So while it may have some civilian proofs on it there should be military inspection marks on it at the very least. As for the cutoff slot, in between the wars the cutoffs were put back on for a while. I don't have the book in front of me right now to tell you the years it was brought back and then discontinued again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2014 at 6:25pm
pictures coming.......
 
where is a good place to buy spares.
 
it seems that over in the UK there would be  more parts availability? is that a correct assumption?
 
anybody have problems importing spares for the enfield?
 
are parts to a BSA commercial difficult or different from the  military versions. parts now... not the receiver or barrel.
 
What is the story on the Iraqi Contract enfields .... supposedly delivered in the 30's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2014 at 2:14pm
Mike:  many places to get parts here in the US.  Sarco, Numrich, Apex, Liberty Tree, BRP, and Springfield Sporters.
Randy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mike16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2014 at 4:07pm
yes,
 
being new to this restoration side of the business, I'm asking a lot of questions.
 
in retrospect I think I might have paid too mush at 300 for this rifle.
 
I knew enough about the civilian sales and the improved quality in the inter war years so I recognized the uniqueness of this rifle.the hardware is worn. the wood is beautiful but sadly it looks like it was wet sanded to the point where it has lost its contours.
 
I have an Irish No.4Mk 2 but always liked the No.3's.
 
anyway... ordered skennerton's enfield book.
 
are there unique differences in the commercial BSA's parts? I want to restore this one to 1937 BSA commercial specs. If the BSA parts are unique to this rifle where are the vendors that support resto's ?
 
Also.... very curious about the Commercial/Iraqi serial number range in the mid 30's. I have found a few  threads here and there on the Iraqi contract. Mostly vague speculation with no supporting evidence. I'm not getting my hopes up but I suspect this might be one of those rifles.
 
significant evidence that this rifle was in Iraq , certainly up through the late 50's.
 
thank you PaddyO'furniture for your Pm too!
 
pictures soon to follow... I promise.
 
what about purchasing spares from overseas? any problems there?
 
thanks every one!  for your help.
 
also. I have not shot it yet and don't know about the accuracy of the rifle.
 
but the barrel is rough.
 
I know that they can sometime shoot pretty good with a very bad barrel and one can only hope.
 
my question is.... since the serial number on the rifle matches the serial number on the barrel. would the  rifle retain greater value with a shot out barrel that matches or a new barrel(?).
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 5:57am
There were several "versions" of the commercial BSA's. In fact for a while you could not have a No1 MkIII SMLE in .303 British unless you were a "Citizen of the U.K. Or its colonies"Shocked

Maybe this will give you some ideas!



Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 9:26am
Mike:  pretty sure all the small piece parts on the gun are common to all guns, I recall reading that the only numbered parts are the receiver, bolt and sometimes magazine.  All the rest are just piece parts.
 
The wood is going to be a problem, and I have not found anyone commercial who is making anything close to what that gun needs. Military wood is plentiful.
 
Detailed pictures of the gun would help us help you decide which way to go. Smile
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 11:55am
& the nose cap on a No1, forend on a no4.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 12:09pm
You could e-mail EFD rifles in the UK for wood, they may have something. Not sure about import for wooden parts though; I heard there are customs regulations!
EFD were doing wood for the No8 rifles a while back, I believe the No8 hand guard's were modified for the later L42A1 rifle so could have potential for a nice sporter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2014 at 12:31pm
Iraqi ownership/issue stamp is a triangle with a sort of squared off reversed "S" in the centre.
 Found on page 587 of my Skennerton edition.
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