Bullets: progress update |
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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Posted: October 28 2014 at 7:01pm |
Hornady has suspended production of their 174grain .312 BTHP. The .311 SMK is $38/100. This has me thinking about getting a bullet swaging press so that I can provide myself and possibly other milsurp shooters with quality bullets in the funky, oddball calibers we shoot.
I'm. Thinking of starting with a copy of the MkVII bullet. Flat base, core inserted from the rear and left exposed. Thin jacket. It would give enfield shooters a proper bullet to load for their large bore, 2-groove, and worn throat rifles, as well as enabling me to duplicate the mkVII ball load. The other bullet I'm considering is a rebated boat tail version of the same bullet. I'm also thinking about a 215 grain round nose. Maybe a soft point. What would you all like to see? |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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MkVII clone would be nice. Any chance of the filler in the tip style?
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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If I could figure out how to do it in a quick, efficient, and therefore cost effective manner. Just leaving a cavity in the nose would have the same effect as the plug. I suppose I could cut sections of a small, softwood dowel, and the swaging pressure would force it into a cone shape at the nose. I just wish I knew how the Brits did it. |
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White Rhino
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 05 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5118 |
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Sounds awesome!!! let us know if you follow through, I would be willing to buy some also !!!
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"White Rhino"
"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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It'll be a while. Dem presses be 'spensive.
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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SMK 174grain Boat tails are 44 Euros per 100 in Europe, thats about 55 US dollars!
Would it be easy to export orgive's from the US to Europe, or would it have to go through specialised armes dealers?
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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I believe the originals were a powdered wood pulp, which was basically poured in. It was compressed as the lead rear core was run into the jacket. Unfortunately I don't have any volumes or weights of filler to lead which would probably be a good thing to know from the accuracy standpoint.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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Shamu, I was thinking about that approach too. Sawdust ought to do the trick. There would need to be some filler in the tip. Otherwise, the lead would be forced into the space, creating all kinds of problems. I definitely see why it's there.
Greek surplus has aluminum plugs in the nose, I believe. It would be really helpful if someone would donate a handful of projectiles for the purpose of reverse engineering. Here's another question. How important is it to have the wood plug in the nose? The purpose of the plug is to make the bullet yaw and tumble on impact to cause more damage. It's not like these would be legal for hunting anywhere. You could maybe hunt hogs with them. |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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"Greek surplus has aluminum plugs in the nose, I believe. It would be
really helpful if someone would donate a handful of projectiles for the
purpose of reverse engineering."
South African R1M3Z also has the alloy plugs. I was thinking that its probably easier to "pour" sawdust slurry than machine an alloy tapered rod. "The purpose of the plug is to make the bullet yaw and tumble on impact to cause more damage." Although that happens the original purpose was to shift the center of gravity rearwards to get a more accurate long range projectile, It also allowed for a longer projectile without increasing the weight beyond what was wanted. The same basic idea that is used in HP match ammo. Because of that I guess the amount & depth of the filler is pretty critical as an incorrect balance would cause instability in air as well. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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Yes, the wood pulp is the only method I would consider, as there is no way to make metal plugs without increasing the cost dramatically. I could just pour in a pinch of sawdust. I could also use plastic. Hmm. Do you guys think that Dacron filler, used in black powder shooting and reduced loads, would work? Heck, cream of wheat might even work.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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It would be a balancing act whatever you used. I think it would have to be pretty much non compressible though because of the pressure fed lead wire going in behind it.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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The lead wire would be cut into sections of equal weight and dropped into the jacket to be pressed in by a die. I believe that it will work as long as I adjust the die properly. Some sort of synthetic would be better from the standpoint of consistency
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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If you want to lighten the nose of the orgive to move the centre of gravity rearwards, could you use some type of resin (two pack mix) It would be injected into the outer jacket and allowed to set prior filling the lead. However I suppose the heat of the lead being poured in may damage the resin.
This is just a thought I had while reading your post, I have no experience in Ballistic's
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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IIRC the lead is cold swaged under pressure, not melted.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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A section of lead wire is cut off and run through a shaping die to form the core. It is then placed into the jacket and crimped in. There are also core molds you can get to make cores from scrap lead. Either way, the lead goes in cold.
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Long branch
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2014 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 251 |
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Well, here's a little progress update. I pulled two bullets from my Greek surplus. It's dated 1976 BTW. My plan was to cut the jacket off one to study the composition and send my analysis and the other bullet to Corbin to see if they can make the die set.
Here's what I found: 1. They weighed 173.4 and 173.6 grains. 2. There is no aluminum plug in the tip. 3. There is no cavity in the tip. 4. The entire jacket is filled with lead. 5. The tail end is radiused. So far, I see three possible reasons that they might have omitted the plug. 1. They figured out that the plug offered no real advantage, at least not enough of one to take the extra time. 2. It was a time and/or cost cutting measure. 3. The Geneva convention banned the bullets with the plug because of the yawing effect and resulting tissue damage. I'm thinking it's probably #1 or 2. Any thoughts? |
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