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Bullets: progress update

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    Posted: October 28 2014 at 7:01pm
Hornady has suspended production of their 174grain .312 BTHP. The .311 SMK is $38/100. This has me thinking about getting a bullet swaging press so that I can provide myself and possibly other milsurp shooters with quality bullets in the funky, oddball calibers we shoot.

I'm. Thinking of starting with a copy of the MkVII bullet. Flat base, core inserted from the rear and left exposed. Thin jacket. It would give enfield shooters a proper bullet to load for their large bore, 2-groove, and worn throat rifles, as well as enabling me to duplicate the mkVII ball load.

The other bullet I'm considering is a rebated boat tail version of the same bullet.

I'm also thinking about a 215 grain round nose. Maybe a soft point.

What would you all like to see?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 5:03am
MkVII clone would be nice. Any chance of the filler in the tip style?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 7:54am
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

MkVII clone would be nice. Any chance of the filler in the tip style?


If I could figure out how to do it in a quick, efficient, and therefore cost effective manner. Just leaving a cavity in the nose would have the same effect as the plug. I suppose I could cut sections of a small, softwood dowel, and the swaging pressure would force it into a cone shape at the nose. I just wish I knew how the Brits did it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 11:24am
Sounds awesome!!!  let us know if you follow through, I would be willing to buy some also !!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 11:30am
It'll be a while. Dem presses be 'spensive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 11:56am
SMK 174grain Boat tails are 44 Euros per 100 in Europe, thats about 55 US dollars! 
Would it be easy to export orgive's from the US to Europe, or would it have to go through specialised armes dealers?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 2:36pm
I believe the originals were a powdered wood pulp, which was basically poured in. It was compressed as the lead rear core was run into the jacket. Unfortunately I don't have any volumes or weights of filler to lead which would probably be a good thing to know from the accuracy standpoint.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 29 2014 at 8:10pm
Shamu, I was thinking about that approach too. Sawdust ought to do the trick. There would need to be some filler in the tip. Otherwise, the lead would be forced into the space, creating all kinds of problems. I definitely see why it's there.

Greek surplus has aluminum plugs in the nose, I believe. It would be really helpful if someone would donate a handful of projectiles for the purpose of reverse engineering.

Here's another question. How important is it to have the wood plug in the nose? The purpose of the plug is to make the bullet yaw and tumble on impact to cause more damage. It's not like these would be legal for hunting anywhere. You could maybe hunt hogs with them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 4:43am
"Greek surplus has aluminum plugs in the nose, I believe. It would be really helpful if someone would donate a handful of projectiles for the purpose of reverse engineering."

South African R1M3Z also has the alloy plugs. I was thinking that its probably easier to "pour" sawdust slurry than machine an alloy tapered rod.

"The purpose of the plug is to make the bullet yaw and tumble on impact to cause more damage."

Although that happens the original purpose was to shift the center of  gravity rearwards to get a more accurate long range projectile, It also allowed for a longer projectile without increasing the weight beyond what was wanted. The same basic idea that is used in HP match ammo. Because of that I guess the amount & depth of the filler is pretty critical as an incorrect balance would cause instability in air as well.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 6:44am
Yes, the wood pulp is the only method I would consider, as there is no way to make metal plugs without increasing the cost dramatically. I could just pour in a pinch of sawdust. I could also use plastic. Hmm. Do you guys think that Dacron filler, used in black powder shooting and reduced loads, would work? Heck, cream of wheat might even work.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 7:57am
It would be a balancing act whatever you used. I think it would have to be pretty much non compressible though because of the pressure fed lead wire going in behind it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 8:11am
The lead wire would be cut into sections of equal weight and dropped into the jacket to be pressed in by a die. I believe that it will work as long as I adjust the die properly. Some sort of synthetic would be better from the standpoint of consistency
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 11:33am
If you want to lighten the nose of the orgive to move the centre of gravity rearwards, could you use some type of resin (two pack mix) It would be injected into the outer jacket and allowed to set prior filling the lead. However I suppose the heat of the lead being poured in may damage the resin.
This is just a thought I had while reading your post, I have no experience in Ballistic's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 12:34pm
IIRC the lead is cold swaged under pressure, not melted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 30 2014 at 12:47pm
A section of lead wire is cut off and run through a shaping die to form the core. It is then placed into the jacket and crimped in. There are also core molds you can get to make cores from scrap lead. Either way, the lead goes in cold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Long branch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 27 2014 at 7:39pm
Well, here's a little progress update. I pulled two bullets from my Greek surplus. It's dated 1976 BTW. My plan was to cut the jacket off one to study the composition and send my analysis and the other bullet to Corbin to see if they can make the die set.

Here's what I found:

1. They weighed 173.4 and 173.6 grains.
2. There is no aluminum plug in the tip.
3. There is no cavity in the tip.
4. The entire jacket is filled with lead.
5. The tail end is radiused.

So far, I see three possible reasons that they might have omitted the plug.

1. They figured out that the plug offered no real advantage, at least not enough of one to take the extra time.

2. It was a time and/or cost cutting measure.

3. The Geneva convention banned the bullets with the plug because of the yawing effect and resulting tissue damage.

I'm thinking it's probably #1 or 2. Any thoughts?
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