Enfield-Rifles.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Off Topic > New Members
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - G,day from OZ
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

G,day from OZ

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
Message
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 519
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 11:18am
"Using our ADI powders 2206H, 2209, and 2213SC with the Sierra 174 grn match.
Varying weights and OAL. From in the rifling to a few thou off."

Would those bullets be flat based or boat tail?

You mention that it is converted and it is in 303 caliber?

Converted from the Bonehill 22rf conversion back to 303? 

How long ago and how was this done? How was it done. 303 liner?

Could it be that it has had the 22rf liner removed and you are shooting through the old original bore???





.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Perentie View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: August 10 2018
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 3:00pm
The Sierras are the boat tail no flat base.
As you said it was the Bonehill conversion to .22LR and a new .303 barrel was installed instead.
I believe it was a no 4 barrel and it has an H stamped on the top flat.
The bore looks very good and when converted they drilled a hole in the rear of the receiver so when the breech blocked is popped out it can be cleaned from the rear to save the muzzle.
The thin fore end with 2 bands bothers me a bit , but shooting from a rest with no sling I would have thought all shots would have reacted the same.

If this should be in another place the Moderators should move it if required.
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 1229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 3:02pm
Not to take the thread south, but as some remember, I received a No4 Mk1 in a trade in the winter. I worked the stock and painted the hardwear olive drab. Looked great, shot terrible. Suspected worn bore. I relagated to a parts rifle. After reading about some other blokes rifle not shooting well and Goosic perhaps suggesting bobbing a couple of inches of the barrel, my winter project (one of many) is to make this Sporter a 22" barrel 215 gr bush gun. Topped with an old Weaver 4x I have.
Back to Top
Perentie View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: August 10 2018
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2018 at 3:16pm
I dont think there is much I can do with the fore end. the bands are tight with no movement.
IMG_2269 by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/27hvUsE">IMG_2270 by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/141809689@N05/]
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 9281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 6:22am
Have you tried the "bullet test"?
Reversed bullet inserted in muzzle to check wear at the exit.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 519
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 7:18am
Hmmm, It appears to be an SMLE heavy barrel, which indeed is the same profile as that of a No.4.

Sometimes there is a problem if the rifle was shot with cordite loaded ammunition. Cordite burns very hot and eroads the throat badly. There was a directive at one time that rifles that shot nitro cellulose loaded ammo should continue to do so and not the shoot cordite as accuracy would suffer.

So it would be of benefit if you could get the lead (as in throat) gauged. It could be a used barrel that was put on there.

All kinds of black magic to get the SMLE rifles to shoot, same magic would apply to your gun. The first one would be to slug the bore and use the appropriate flat based bullet with a stiff charge to give the bullet a good kick in the arse to bump the base and make the bullet obturate into the rifling.

The black art smle magicians would be the ones to ask for advice.

The fore end that Bonehill installed is taken from a cavalry carbine Martini Henry. Why, I have no idea. The fore end is way too short and looks stupid with the longer barrel. But that is just my opinion. Bonehill set the style back in those days.
The SMLE rifle has bearing points and upwards pressure at the muzzle to work with the barrel harmonics. The MH carbine fore end gives no such support, it just mounts onto the barrel.
If this rifle were mine, I would be looking to change and rework a fore arm. Maybe free float the barrel.

Great project that you have there. It will be challenging to get it to shoot. Just for schmitts and giggles, when you get some ammo sorted out for it, try shooting with the fore arm removed.
.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
Goosic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2017
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 1164
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 7:27am
Perentie: This is what I have learned so far. Even though it is a No4 barrel,it is still the wrong barrel screwed into the wrong receiver for that particular application. This is more likely not the case but should still be addressed. The bedding is wrong and can be applying upward pressure just past the forward band. Take a 12" long 1/4" dowel and lay the ends of it on top of two blocks of wood and pull down on the center of it. You'll see what I'm referring to. You have target sights,front and rear on it. It's not a target rifle,never was. It is shooting high at 200 yards due in part to it not completing it's full arch to zero again after the muzzle upon firing. Adjusting your point of aim downwards on the rear sight until the shots start falling back into a better location is your starting point. Start at 25 yds,then 50,then 75,and then 100 and watch and Mark the shots on the target. Shoot at 200 and Mark the shots. At 300 yards,the bullets should start to fall back to Earth. A simple formula to figure bullet drop and where your actual zero is based off of bullet weight and speed can be found somewhere on here. You may even have to revert back to the original configuration of a blade front sight and rear v notch. Bottom line? You have a 110-140 year old rifle with a 50-70 year old barrel screwed into it. Enjoy it the way it is.
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 1229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 8:51am
Shamu. I just did the reverse bullet test on my OD Sporter. 150 gr Hornady spire point. .31" dia., 1.06" length. My calipers say .47" of the bullet went into the barrel. I know this tells us something. I have no idea what this tells us.
Back to Top
hoadie View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: March 16 2006
Location: Niagara/Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7027
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 9:16am
Tells ME to have a beer!!
Reading all this stuff - while disgustingly sober - is not a good idea!
But it sure is learning me stuff!
Loose wimmen tightened here
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 1229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 11:28am
I'll drink to that!!!
Back to Top
hoadie View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: March 16 2006
Location: Niagara/Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 7027
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 12:50pm
Stand back! Me first!!
Loose wimmen tightened here
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 9281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 1:35pm
Put it in rotate it carefully with a little pressure.
The rifling should make a scratch round the bullet, measure the diameter at that point. The idea is to have the unfired bullet a little bigger than the bore so its is swaged fully into the rifling on firing!
The bullet should not drop fully past the tapered portion.
If the muzzle is shot out or damaged it will go in further. It only actually measures the crown, but it does indicate a worn or tight bore.

0.47" is good as the bullet is still getting bigger at that point. The one I'm measuring (from the meplat backwards) is only cylindrical after about 0.62" your bore diameter across the lands seems about 0.285".

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
Perentie View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: August 10 2018
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 16
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Perentie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 2:04pm
I did a chamber cast.
The throat diameter is .318"
The groove diameter as best as I can measure across the 5 grooves is .316 or 7"

A fired case mouth ID is .313 and OD .343.
The Sierras I was using are .311 so there was a bit of a gap.
The biggest bullet I can get in the case mouth would be .314 which still isnt going to fill the throat or groove diameter unless I cast some lead and get bumpup.

I have some commercial hardcast bullets here I can size to .308 and will paper patch them to .314 and give that a go.
Perhaps I should remove the fore end as suggested and see what happens. Just put the bare barrel on the rest.
Back to Top
englishman_ca View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 08 2009
Location: Almaguin
Status: Offline
Points: 519
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote englishman_ca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 2:05pm
Bullet in the muzzle trick is only really a quick guide. It isn't gauging anything, bullets vary.

The majority of wear in the barrel is usually at the other end, at the breach end at the lead portion. The throat can be eroded and worn but the muzzle still good.

The muzzle often gets worn from improper cleaning. 'Cord worn' it is called from using a pull through cord pulled at an angle to the muzzle or from using a cleaning rod without a guide. 
 .
One would have to shoot thousands of rounds to wear out the rifling in a barrel. Figures vary but around 10,000 rounds is what was expected from an Enfield rifled barrel if I remember correctly (that's five hundred boxes of commercial ammo, or 2000 charger clips worth). Less with cordite.
.
.
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes!
Back to Top
Honkytonk View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: December 30 2017
Location: Brandon Mb
Status: Offline
Points: 1229
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2018 at 2:34pm
Thanks people. More to think about.
Back to Top
Shamu View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
Logo Designer / Donating Member

Joined: April 25 2007
Location: MD, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 9281
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2018 at 6:28am
Agreed but it does eliminate or confirm muzzle damage as a problem. Nothing more though.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.05
Copyright ©2001-2016 Web Wiz Ltd.