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Saw a couple things at Gun Show

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Bear43 View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 09 2015 at 2:04pm
This past weekend I went to a gun show in Aberdeen, SD and I was very surprised at the turnout. Lots more vendors and lots more people coming through. That meant more variety of course. Saw a lot of Mausers and Garands for sale, but that's not what I was looking for.
 
 
I came across a very nice 1942 Long Branch No 4 Mk 1*. It was a very pretty rifle and all matching but the $595 price tag made me put it back down. I also saw an all matching No 5 Mk 1 for $500. I thought that was a reasonable price since it was 1944 production as well. Still more than I had budgeted for. The final thing I saw was what once was a Long Lee, 1896 Sparkbrook. It had been turned into a sporter. Fore-end was shortened, barrel shortened and a Parker-Hale front sight. I looked as best I could for any other Parker-Hale markings but didn't notice any. The rifle was missing the magazine cutoff and it had a provision for the SMLE type safety but the assembly itself was missing. They wanted $225 for it, but I honestly was only shopping for parts for my many projects so I decided to put it down and let it go. I am kind of regretting that one now, it was a rather pretty sporter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2015 at 5:23pm
i think you made a good choice , you have some very nice projects underway if i recall correctly , need to stay focused , the decent no5 or longbranch would have been a consideration if your looking for one , 

otherwise id aim at my current projects - just my 2 cents here , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2015 at 6:37am
That's exactly my plan at this point. I'm just staying focused on the projects for now and after that I can start looking at acquiring more rifles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2015 at 4:30pm
as you make it post progress there are a number of us that enjoy that as well some of us know just a little of some of what your working on and would enjoy an update - if i knew what you were seeking these days id keep an eye open here for you , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bear43 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2015 at 6:45am
I will have to do some updates soon. My 1906 is in wood limbo at this point. I plan to buy a new set of MK I* wood from EFD Rifles over in England but they are out of stock at the moment and besides that with the exchange rate it is quite expensive.Mostly at this point I am looking for small bits for my 1916 Mk III and for the 2 No 4 receivers. I need No 4 bits the most, so if you see any good deals on those bits please give me a shout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2015 at 10:28am
I go back and forth thru projects.
 
I have one "really long term project" running right now and that is my Jeep Project.
 
However I also have several gun projects running at low speed but they are only running at low speed because there was something about them that took them out of the quick turnover project category.
 
I like quick turnaround projects as they provide relatively instant gratification. Sometimes my best intentions don't work out that way.
 
I bought an 03A3 with the intention of reboring it to .375 Whelen, turns out we are still trying to figure out what caliber it is and so far we have eliminated .30-06, .308 Norma, .300 Win Mag and am now looking at .30 Ackley #1 or 2. It has been rechambered for some Belted Magnum Cartridge, but not one of the popular ones.  Needless to say none of these calibers interest me and the gun will have to be rechambered for some factory loaded caliber like .308 Norma before I can sell it. So it goes into the long term pile. Not gonna make much if anything on that one, and I only keep guns that I will shoot on a regular basis.
 
I bought the first #4 Mk1 that led me here and that project turned around in less than 2 months, and it is a joy to shoot.  The #4 Mk1* Long Branch I got shortly thereafter is a different story and after finding it had a 2 groove barrel that is less than ideal for my intended purposes the gun will get rebored to .35-303 and turned into a Brush Carbine. I have  a good idea of what it is going to look like.(a requisite for any project is developing a good picture in your head of what the end result will look like, and then work towards that end result.) I already have stocks for it and it is close to being sent out for reboring and rechambering.  Only thing really hanging me up on that one is making a 3 foot long oven to cure the Cerakote,,, which is a separate project in itself. I expect to have that gun done in the next 3-4 months as there are not that many facets of the project to complete, and I also expect that the gun will exceed my expectations, which only adds to the gratification of finishing the project.
 
I have several others that require my full and undivided attention to complete as they are guns that are way too nice to screw up. Those fall under the heading of "Really Long Term Projects" Like my Jeep, and some of them have sat for years waiting for me to gain the skills or parts necessary to complete them."
 
I always look for the fast project that can be ran in underneath others ones that are waiting for something I don't have, or can't do. but sometimes you just don't get lucky.
 
One positive point about having projects lines up in advance is that as long as you give yourself something to do,,, you stay alive.  Those who retire and sit on their arse in front of the TV usually don't last it that long.
 
I have enough projects in que to last me for a long time, and I have ideas for plenty more. 
 
You guys should too! 
 
Bear 43:   go back and find that gun! It sounds like a good candidate for a Sporter Resto and there may be a Lee Speed or something similar hiding under all the "Mung and Drool." 
 
If it had a Parker Hale Front sight on it,,, it probably was a Parker Hale conversion. I say this because I was told that whereas PH parts were sold individually,,,  the vast majority of their production was used by PH for it's own conversions.  There were plenty of other Front Sights available and a Lyman would have been more probable for a home conversion than a PH Front Sight ,,,Even in Canada. 
 
I am pretty sure after talking to this guy that My #4MK1* was a  PH conversion and the fact that the Front sight was soldered on Crooked does not negate that possibility as I was told of far worse work going out the door on a regular basis.  They were  not known for High Quality Gun work, they were known for generic gun work and parts.
 
What a find a real live British Sporting Rifle would be, that was not a Military remodel.  I was told by a that same very knowledgeable British Gun Salesman at the SCI Show last week that there were plenty of them made.
 
Looking for a copy of BSA the Golden Century by John Knibb,,, So far this one has eluded me but it is similar in nature to Brophy's book on the Springfield.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dazed and Confused Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 6:38am
Originally posted by W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan wrote:

I am pretty sure after talking to this guy that My #4MK1* was a  PH conversion and the fact that the Front sight was soldered on Crooked does not negate that possibility as I was told of far worse work going out the door on a regular basis.  They were  not known for High Quality Gun work, they were known for generic gun work and parts.
 
Randy

Interesting view of Parker Hale... The opinions I pickup from other gun boards, especially The Lee Enfield Knowledge Base on Milsurps, is that Parker Hale only made quality conversions.... I really don't know... What I do know is my No4 Mk1 sporter was probably a Parker Hale conversion too. It was known as the De Lux No4, 22" barrel with "remodeled military woodwork employed". PH front sight was silver solderd on straight tho... The stock was done up nice but the barrel had machining marks from the rush production of war time mfg. 

Believe it or not, I have a Golden State Arms, "Santa Fe 1946" 30-06 sporter built on a WWII K98 action that has a far nicer fit and finish than this No4. I didn't pay $75 for it either...






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:16am
I've never heard of a complaint about P-H stuff in 45 years of shooting before! Can you illustrate some examples?
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:20am
D&C  Thanks for the picture !!! Great piece of info! It actually confirms my theory as both the guns shown were minimally altered to become Sporters.
 
My #4 mk1* Long Branch is identical to the Deluxe #4 shown above.  Mine is missing the hood for the Front Sight, and it has a  Santa Fe magazine which may or may not be what is shown in the picture.
 
All that was done to that gun for the conversion is cutting and recrowning the barrel (probably to deal with Muzzle Wear from cleaning) Adding the new Front Sight (since you cut the old one off) profiling of the fore stock and dumping the upper handguard, and installing the new magazine and front sling swivel. They stained and refinished the stocks also just to make the gun look better.  Mine is actually a kind of Purplish Brown color
 
Here's a pic of mine before I started working on it. You can see it is identical to the one in your picture
 
Randy
 
 
 
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 9:52am
It's not a compliant about P/H stuff,,, it is a more accurate description of their product's level of quality and their place in the British Gun Industry.
 
Parker Hale did not make "best quality guns," Ever. I was told this by a representative from the very prominent Nickolas Holt Auctions of London at the SCI Show last week. This individual had 35 years of experience in the high end British gun industry and I learned a lot from him in the 20 minutes I spent talking to him.
 
 
 
 
The best example I have ever seen of a Parker Hale rifle built on a Mauser action was comparable to a generic Rem 700 or Win M70. These guns were imported and sold by Garcia in the late 60's-80's. They were nice guns but nothing more than generic in their quality and price point.
 
The other guns like the one I have were nothing more than quickly modified ex military weapons repurposed for civilian use at a time when things were tough right after WWII. 
 
These guns were not expensive and as such occupied a niche in the market that allowed just about anyone to purchase a usable hunting rifle, that he may already be familiar with, to put food on the table or just shoot for sport.
 
They also served the purpose to generate "Cash Flow" for a company that was restarting after WWII and did so by utilizing available and very affordable Military Surplus Weapons.
 
This is in no way a jab at Parker Hale, however thinking that they were the "be all, end all" in British Gun Making is not fair or correct either.  They made aftermarket parts such as sights for British Military Rifles that were affordable and available to the public to enhance their surplus arms, repurposed some Ex Military rifles, and in later years built some nice generic quality guns.
 
A perfect example of this statement is the 8/53 rear sight attachment which allowed a user to convert his bone stock #4 Mk1 to a more usable target rifle for a very small investment. This sight attachment was produced by AJ Parker Co that was a spinoff of the main Parker Hale company.  Other sights produced directly by PH like the 5C were more sophisticated and just gave "Range" to the line of products available to the public to enhance their surplus rifles.
 
I think the statement,,, "It is what it is, and it's not what it isn't." pretty much covers it.
 
Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2015 at 1:16pm
I agree that PH were more "working guns" than the bespoke makers like Purdey, Hollands, Gibbs & so on, but I never heard of them being as sloppily made as to have off centered sights & so on.

There's a huge amount of misconception of how places like Gibbs & so on were in the U.S.

George Gibbs (the originals, not the Val Forgett knock off) were my local shop growing up as I only lived 2 blocks from the old Bristol store. They were never stuffy, stuck up or condescending & nor were most of the customers. The supposed "elitism" is an American fiction. I've been jumped ahead of people setting up guns for a safari to get boxes or .22 RF because they let me jump in instead of waiting while someone was individually fitted for a custom stock.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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