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Velocity change due to Ambient temperature.

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    Posted: January 20 2025 at 12:49pm
A question for the more experienced reloaders! How much change in velocity would you expect, for .303 British, for a temperature change of around 68°F (20°C).

During my recent test using Norma 202 powder, the ambient velocity was lower than I expected. 
This is a new powder for me, so I don't have previous data from my rifle to compare. 

The temperature at the range was around 30°F (-1°C), (as was the temp' when I loaded the rounds).
For a 39 grain load, I was getting 2220ft/sec average. The Norma data shows 2454ft/sec for 39gr.

I was expecting around maybe 2360ft/sec in my rifles. 

The velocity was measured using the new Garmin radar, kindly loaned by a fellow club member who happened to be doing some tests the same day. (a must for next xmas).

Could the temperature make over 100ft/sec difference?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2025 at 1:21pm
Several years ago we held a match with the range covered in snow (Rare event in Texas) and everyone shot a few inches low
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2025 at 2:14pm
Shaun, 100 fps is quite a lot for a 40 deg F change. Presumably, the load data you were working with was based on something close to 70 deg F. So, shooting that load at 30 deg F would be a 40 deg change. 

What affects the powder burn rate and energy released is the temp of the powder in the case. Where shooters can go wrong is having the ammo chilled down to ambient temps and then load into a hot chamber for a variable length of time from shot to shot. 

Somewhere I’ve got a good summary from Bryan Litz on powder temp variability. The typical double based ball powders are the worst. The new type single base powders from IMR and Hodgdon “Extreme” are very good. I see about a 30 fps change for Varget over a 40 deg temp change, it was one of the first in the “extreme” line of Hodgdon powders.  IIRC, the best single base powders show about 0.1 fps change per degree F. 

Let me dig up that data and I’ll post it here. 




 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2025 at 2:27pm
Found it, from 2018:

Good Double Base Powder ………….. 1.0 fps per deg F
Average Single Base Powder ……….  0.3 - 0.5 fps per deg F
Best Single Base Powders ……………. 0.1 - 0.2 fps per deg F

Don’t know what “average” double base powders do, but presumably over 1 fps per deg F.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2025 at 7:20pm
be interesting to know what powders they used 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 20 2025 at 10:33pm
Thanks for the information. 
I will use these loads in February for an ISR event, that is being shot on reduced targets at 200m. This is st the Napoleonic indoor range, where we have our normal TAR ( Tir Armes Reglementaire) Service Rifle competition. Which is four weeks later. So I am using the ISR match as a practice match. I always have issues at this range, because the light is very different. The roof is partly open to slow the light in, and shadows on the targets.  My spotting scope is ok on the outdoor range, but I can never see anything in the black at this range.
I have a better scope on the way, so will be testing that as well.
In the TAR competition, we can only use the scope during the 5 test shots. Not during the match shots, until the round is finished.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 1:53am
Norma 202 is a double base stick powder, so expect on the order of 1 fps per deg F.  

 I doubt the muzzle velocity will change that much from what you chronographed, and if you already have a 200 yd zero with this load, your GTG. 

I’ve never noticed a change of 200 yard zeroes here in GA shooting from say 30 deg to 85 deg.   At 300x and beyond, I’ve seen some change when using double based ball powders of about 1 to 2 MOA.  

As I have found, the primer can make a substantial velocity change, so you may be experiencing a combination of factors that are reducing the velocity to below what the load data shows. 

Good luck at the match! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 3:44am
I've been using Federal primers for some time. I have plenty of them for the amount I shoot. 
I'll let you know how I get on. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 4:13am
One other observation, I’ve noted about 30 fps reduction in muzzle velocity after fully cleaning a barrel of all carbon in the throat with JB. I’ve seen this now on several rifles.  New barrels generally show lower velocity for this same reason.

These types of things are generally small effects, but can add up to cause a significant variation from what is expected. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Irish Blonde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 4:22am
Air density is a variable standing on it's own that can effect velocity. I shoot in 20F. temps from my warm truck cab that's about 70F. I still see a velocity loss of 30-40fps even with Hodgdon Xtreme powders. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 4:28am
Air density doesn’t affect muzzle velocity, but it does affect trajectory. You will find this out from shooting at high elevations.  Same for relative humidity.  Although RH does affect velocity significantly if powder is allowed to gain more moisture or dry out, it affects burn rate hence muzzle velocity.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sapper740 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 5:34am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Air density doesn’t affect muzzle velocity, but it does affect trajectory. You will find this out from shooting at high elevations.

^^^This^^^

My hunting buddies and I always worked up the most accurate handloads for our hunting rifles.  Said handloads were developed near sea level at ranges in and around Vancouver, B.C.  A couple of our favorite hunting areas were in the Shulaps/Camelsfoot mountain ranges (8,000 to 9,000 ft. asl) and the peaks above the Flathead Valley in the Rockies.  Hunting above the tree line necessitates long shots as crossing scree slopes can't be done quietly so before you emerged from the scant cover offered by low lying Juniper bushes we'd glass across the slopes.  We learned to compensate for a higher POI after the first Mule deer buck I shot had its spine blown out despite my aiming much lower.  The deer was dead before it hit the ground but it could have just as easily been a miss.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2025 at 6:23am
Yup.  Air density drops with increasing elevation above sea level.  That reduces drag on the bullet so it retains more speed giving a flatter trajectory.  Shots will go high unless you compensate.  

There are changes in barometric pressure day to day (at the same location) that can affect trajectory too, but these are small and not noticeable out to around 600 yds.  At 1000 yds, you will notice slight changes.  
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