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215 gr Woodleigh and IMR4064

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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2018 at 5:24am
Originally posted by pete-4d pete-4d wrote:

Scott ,ran across this a few years back , haven't tried any of 215-gr woodleigh ,but I shoot the 174-gr protected point ,  different powder charges ,,,,,,, pete


After reading this individuals near max load data,I have a simple question,why? He's attempting to put a jet pack on a bumblebee. Even with the minimum amount used in my data chart,that bullet is going to be moving at almost a half a mile a second with close to three quarters of a ton of kenetic energy when it hits you from 200 yards away. The minimum charge with IMR 4064 should be 35.0 grains. That'll give you near 2000 fps. An increase of three grains,38.0 puts the fps at close to 2200. After that and anymore powder used is waste. To understand this concept take one bullet loaded over 37.0 grains of IMR 4064 and one bullet loaded over a fully packed cartridge case of black powder. The ballistics will be close to identical. At 100 yards that 215 grain bullet is going to hit it's intended target with the same force as a Volkswagen beetle hitting a wall at 55 mph. There is no,"Golden Zone" with that fat little bullet. Stick to the basics and leave it alone. Fun fact: The .303 British rifle round has killed more dangerous big game then any other rifle round before or after it's original design, including wildcat loads...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2018 at 5:40am
I'm very cautious when it comes to reloading. The first thing I realize is that it is a .303. Designed for a specific purpose during a specific time. It is a very proficient round for the taking of most game, in fact all big game in North America. Are the better rounds out there? Of course. I choose the .303. In my experience, when loaded to safe zones (in regards to powder, for my rifles, usually about 70-80% max) I find good performance at the range and in the field. Just my humble opinion... but please reload safe!
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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 11 2018 at 6:45am
Exactly HT.
Everyone has their own preference when it comes to reloads and reloading. I will always err on the caution side. I want to have fun when I'm out shooting. I don't want to come home in a bodybag because I decided I wanted to try to squeeze an extra 50 fps out of my,"Tack driving,lumbering,sometimes fly's sideways,.303 round?" The load data I supplied with the IMR4064 powder came directly out of a NORMA reloading manual and I have used that same book for damn near 35 years now. Still alive to tell you this. Let's be extremely honest hear now. The original design was to create a round that was effective at killing stuff. It was never intended to be a target round or bench rest sub MOA round. The .303 Epps and the .303 Ackley Improved? Still not too much going on for it there, ballistically speaking. You want a flat trajectory round with some speed behind it? .220 Swift,.243 Winchester,.264 Winchester Mag,. 300 Win Mag,.30-416,.338 Lapua.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 13 2018 at 4:35pm
I tend to look at this like Goosic. In that you don't have to push the cartridge to get excellent results.

But I go a little farther and say that you don't have to push ANY cartridge to get acceptable results.

I love people talking about Obsolete cartridges like they don't shoot bullets out anymore.

This cartridge is just as effective now as it was 100 years ago, and it is completely up to taking any game animal in N/A and especially with 215 Woodleighs. If I ever got to go Caribou Hunting in Northern Canada I would be taking my Enfield with that bullet.

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YukonScott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 18 2018 at 5:31pm
Hmm...time to measure...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2018 at 5:55am
Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Exactly HT.
Everyone has their own preference when it comes to reloads and reloading. I will always err on the caution side. I want to have fun when I'm out shooting. I don't want to come home in a bodybag because I decided I wanted to try to squeeze an extra 50 fps out of my,"Tack driving,lumbering,sometimes fly's sideways,.303 round?" The load data I supplied with the IMR4064 powder came directly out of a NORMA reloading manual and I have used that same book for damn near 35 years now. Still alive to tell you this. Let's be extremely honest hear now. The original design was to create a round that was effective at killing stuff. It was never intended to be a target round or bench rest sub MOA round. The .303 Epps and the .303 Ackley Improved? Still not too much going on for it there, ballistically speaking. You want a flat trajectory round with some speed behind it? .220 Swift,.243 Winchester,.264 Winchester Mag,. 300 Win Mag,.30-416,.338 Lapua.
 
I completely agree with this statement.  I would also add that one should be cautious even with published data, there is a LOT of variation in maximum charge for any particular bullet and powder combination.  I've got numerous reloading books: Sierra, Hornady, Lyman, Speer; and for some of the cartridges I load I've also got The Complete Reloading Manual that covers many bullet makers and powder makers data.  I've also got some old manuals, some go back to the late 1950's.  Powder manufacturers change their compositions over time and you should also be cautious in using old data with new powder. 
 
When I develop a new load, I review all the data I have for that particular bullet and the powder I'm using.  Always start on the low end (although be careful here too, don't use reduced loads unless you are sure the power you select is suitable for that purpose).  A chrono is a big help to confirm velocities.
 
A lesson I learned some years back is that I had reloaded and shot probably close to 1000 rounds of 174 gr. SMK with Re 15 using published data that was close to or at the max.  The accuracy in my No. 4 was very good with this load, but when I eventually chrono'ed the load it was well above 2550 fps.  I don't know what the pressure was, but it surely had to be high.  I backed way off of this load and found that accuracy was still very acceptable, even for competitive match shooting.  I had erroneously believed that best accuracy would be at or near the max. 
 
Although the Lee Enfield was not designed as a target rifle, it is very satisfactory for use in vintage Service Rifle competition; it has a long history of success in this role.  Reloading for competitive shooting takes a slightly different approach than reloading for hunting purposes.  We don't need a bullet that expands on impact.  We need consistency on the target.  Low recoil is also a significant advantage, especially in rapid fire.  Long range shooting does limit bullet selection and higher velocities have an advantage, so be careful here too. 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranch Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2018 at 3:03am
Originally posted by YukonScott YukonScott wrote:

Just wondering if I cover up more of the 215 with the neck of casing to make it same length as the 174 shown here will be ok...enough room for powder not withstanding...
If you seat the WL 215-grain deeper to match the cartridge OAL of the other, the pressure will increase.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 22 2018 at 10:54am
I typically seat bullets to the cannelure.  Don't like bullets without the cannelure but I will use them if I can't get anything else. I crimp all my .303's with a Lee Collet Crimp Die, and the cannelure is a good place for that crimp to go. That's 150 and 174 gr Hornadys and 215 Woodleighs.

The 215 gr Woodleighs I have, have a cannelure and when seated to the top of that, (3.090) they will go into the magazine and feed just fine. I could seat them about .01-.02 deeper and it wouldn't hurt anything, but I don't see the need.  As far as going to the depth of the 174 gr bullets (2.925) That would definitely increase pressures.

My .02 on this.

Randy

It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranch Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 6:58am
Originally posted by W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan wrote:

The 215 gr Woodleighs I have, have a cannelure...
Hmm, my WL of current manufacture don't have the cannelure. That is one thing I don't like about them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 31 2018 at 6:42pm
Ranch Dog:  Are you "the"  "Ranch Dog" of Boolit Mould fame?

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ranch Dog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2018 at 8:20am
Originally posted by W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan wrote:

Ranch Dog:  Are you "the"  "Ranch Dog" of Boolit Mould fame?

Randy

Sorry I missed this. Yep, that be me!

Came back searching for more topics with the Woodleigh. I was drawn for two nilgai hunts this year and thought I would use my SMLE scout for one of the hunts. I figure that the animal being from a Crown colony, there have probably been more nilgai killed with the 303 British than by any other non-magnum centerfire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote W.R.Buchanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2018 at 10:47am
Originally posted by Ranch Dog Ranch Dog wrote:

Originally posted by W.R.Buchanan W.R.Buchanan wrote:

Ranch Dog:  Are you "the"  "Ranch Dog" of Boolit Mould fame?

Randy

Sorry I missed this. Yep, that be me!

Came back searching for more topics with the Woodleigh. I was drawn for two nilgai hunts this year and thought I would use my SMLE scout for one of the hunts. I figure that the animal being from a Crown colony, there have probably been more nilgai killed with the 303 British than by any other non-magnum centerfire.

Good to hear from you RD.  Castboolits is still going strong. Are you using a Cast Boolit for your Nilgai hunt or the 215 Woodleighs?

I personally would not consider hunting any animal in the Empire with anything other than my #4 Mk1 and whichever 150, 174, or 215 gr bullet or 200 gr 314299 was appropriate for the size of the game in question. So I think you are" Politically Correct" in your choice of weapon and projectile.

As you no doubt know, I could easily load any Bullet needed in camp with my BPM Hand Press.

I had one guy who did a Depredation Hunt in Namibia and took 2 rifles, a .577 NE Double, and a Sharps in .45-100.  He was only allowed 20 loaded rounds of each into the country so he brought a hand press and a bunch of components and loaded by the campfire every night.

He fired 150 of the .577's and about 100 of the 45-100's.  He also must be a bigger man than I to actually fire 150 rounds thru a .577NE during his entire life, let alone just 6-7 weeks of hunting!

Good to hear from you.

Randy
It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do.
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