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shiloh View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 12 2021 at 1:26pm
Seeing as how there are no jacketed pills to be had here in Canada that I can find besides 180gr rn campro`s, I thought I`d order up some 170gr gas checked and lubed hard cast from Prairie Projectiles for plinking.
As for powder, all I have on hand is 2lbs of imr4064. Can this be used in reduced loads?, and if so what would be a starting point?

Powder, bullets and primers are pretty much unatainium up here of late, I also have some W296 but it`s reserved for my .30 m1.

All help and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Rick
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britrifles View Drop Down
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I think so, keep bullet velocities below 2,000 fps, watch for any leading. 4064 is a bit slower than 4895, which works fine with reduced loads.  
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Cool, thanx.

Looks like starting loads for this using 4064 would be around 22-27grs, any suggestions on what to use as a filler if any?
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hoadie View Drop Down
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Shilo:
U got a tumbler for cleaning cases? If'n u do, PM me..I may have a present for you.
Loose wimmen tightened here
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throw a used dryer sheet or two in the tumbler to keep the dust down and the cases come out cleaner , 
ive heard of all sorts of filler options , i dont use any so cannot recommend one over any other , someone here will tho , 

im reading this thread with interest tho as i am in process of setting up and loading cast 4570s , quite sure some of what is imparted here will be helpful to me as well as to you , 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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I just switched over to a wet tumbler.  Very effective.  

Using fillers is tricky, you don’t want something that gets compressed into a solid mass that has to get extruded thru the case neck, this could cause dangerous pressure levels.  I would stay away from them and pick a powder that is suitable for reduced loads, stick with published data. 
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I just switched over to a wet tumbler.  Very effective.  

Using fillers is tricky, you don’t want something that gets compressed into a solid mass that has to get extruded thru the case neck, this could cause dangerous pressure levels.  I would stay away from them and pick a powder that is suitable for reduced loads, stick with published data. 


I will indeed be cautious while working on these reduced loads, I`m also going to play around with BP if I can get my hands on some.
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Try to get some H4895, that is a proven powder for reduced loads with cast bullets. 
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Update;

Received a box of cast pills on Tues, they are 170gr hard alloy, flat nosed spire points, I think that`s what he called them.
No gas checks because there`s none available??, so they`re powder coated, blue, they look pretty cool.

Loaded three batches of 5 ea to start, with IMR 4064 and dacron fluff filler to keep the powder in place, just lightly pushed in to fill the gap to the top of the neck, not compressed, the bullet seating pushed it down.

The loads were 24grs, 24.5grs and 25grs just to test and get a base line, PPU brass, win lrg rifle primers.

Went to the range today to try them using my 1943 Savage 2 grove full military. Rear Singer Sights set to 350yrds(just guesstimated knowing they would be slow movers).

24gr= 11"mean group with one flyer, 8 " low of POA   }
24.5gr= 3.03" group with one flyer, 3.75" low of POA  }    Ranged to 100 yrds, +4 degC, no wind
25gr= 3.8" group with one flyer, 4" low of POA            }

Interesting each group had a flyer and that they were each around 5-6" from the mean group, not sure what that means?? The recoil was not as light as I figured it would be but, very comfy, shoot all day kind of comfy.

I think my next batch will be fine tuning around the 24.5gr batch in 1 grain increments to see if it tightens up any and keep increasing the sight to get POA, POI.

Don`t have a choro, but you know they`re slow when your sights are set at 350yrd mark to hit at 100yrs.

After the 15 rounds, pulled my .30cal boar snake through the barrel a few times to revile a mirror shiny bore with no indication of fouling.

I know there`s better powders to be doing this with but when you can`t get any, use whats on hand.

Cheers all and have a safe and happy new year.
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Shiloh, the bullet situation is indeed approaching dire (actually already there!). My new mold came in yesterday from Accurate Molds in Salt Lake City. Am going to experiment with these bevel based projectiles,  nominal 155 and 180 grainers. Both were supposed to be .314 diamter, but the the 180 is actually at .3155. Will size those to .314 and  be tumble lubing them both with Lee Alox, which is nothing more than Zeibart undercoating from what I have been told.

My current plans are to use "The Load", which is 13 grains of Red Dot. This comes from an C. E. "Ed" Harris article in the old Handloader's Digest.  Thankfully I have plenty of primers & powder on hand.

My own range is but 65 yards, which stretches my eyesight as it is. As a short range critter-getter/plinker, this is just fine. Report to follow.
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shiloh View Drop Down
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My original intention was to use pistol/shotgun powder, but so far I can`t find any. But I think for now, the 4064 will do and it shows some promise with these cast bullets and the 2 grove Savage rifle.
Its fun and I`m learning new skills.
Cheers
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Here it is the opposite.....rifle powder is not to be found anywhere. Was told by a fellow shopper at my LGS that someone paid $400 for 8 lbs of 4046 recently at this same shop.

The Red Dot load will supposedly fly out at 1400 fps. Fast enough during these crazy times.
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Went out to the range today with some more loads.
25.2 grs, 25.4gr and 25.6 grs of the imr 4064, showed the best overall improvement with POA/POI pretty close.
25.4grs showed the best overall group, loads above that, the rounds started to string and spread out.
The group shrunk down from 4-5" to 2-3" with 2 only  1/4" apart. I thinks that`s going to be as good as it gets with this powder, iron sights and my eyes.

So the load for my 2 groove Savage enfield will be, PPU brass, 170gr hard cast powder coated, Win lrg rifle primers, 25.4grs imr4064 and a bit of dacron fluff to hold the powder in place.
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britrifles View Drop Down
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2 to 3 inch five shot groups at 100 yards is very respectable.  Sound like you have a great load for that rifle. 
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Dragunov View Drop Down
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OK, a question on this. Is the dacron mandatory?  Is IMR 4064 position sensitive with this amount? 
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I would be nervous using 4064 without something to hold the powder back on the primer.  I don’t like using any sort of fillers either, but pressures can spike very high with low volume charges of inappropriate powders as the primer flame “flashes over” the powder charge laying flat along the case. 

If it were me, I would use H4895, it has a lot of success and Hodgdon recommends it for reduced charges, down to 60% of the case volume.  I’ve shot thousands of rounds of .30-06 with a charge of 44.5 grains H4895 with 125 gr bullets, no fillers, and won a lot of matches with that load in the M1.  
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