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Goosic View Drop Down
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Points: 8842 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Dragunov Dragunov wrote:

OK, a question on this. Is the dacron mandatory?  Is IMR 4064 position sensitive with this amount? 
He is using almost half of the recommended powder charge for a similar jacketed bullet. There is the possibility of the powder charge exposing the flash hole. Using a small wad of dacron or a piece of paper to keep the powder "packed" helps to ensure there will be no flashover during primer ignition...
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Originally posted by Goosic Goosic wrote:

Originally posted by Dragunov Dragunov wrote:

OK, a question on this. Is the dacron mandatory?  Is IMR 4064 position sensitive with this amount? 
He is using almost half of the recommended powder charge for a similar jacketed bullet. There is the possibility of the powder charge exposing the flash hole. Using a small wad of dacron or a piece of paper to keep the powder "packed" helps to ensure there will be no flashover during primer ignition...


That`s exactly what I`m doing.
I did research this and found the info  I needed using the 4064 powder with cast bullets.

Britrifles, I`d love to use other powders but up here powder is almost made of unatanium and if I can find some 3000km away it costs $60 to ship 1lb.
Plus on top of that there are no commercial jacket bullets to reload with. I have 10,000 22lr and magnum ammo but that gets old real fast.

My local shop, and it`s the only game in town for close to 200km only has 3031 and l`lil gun, that`s it.

So far the loads I`ve made to date show zero signs of over pressure, every one has gone bang with the dacron fluff holding the powder in place, and its not packed in, just enough to keep the powder in place maybe 1-2grs by weight(havn`t weighed it but its not much), and there`s very little recoil which to me is a major plus.

Like a lot of us I`m very frustrated with the lack of supply, this is the first time in my life that I`ve got money but can buy anything, never thought I`d see the day.
Pandemic be damned, we`re in the middle of  great depression, but with all our technology, its hard to tell or at the very least admit it.

Sorry if I`m sounding a little crusty.
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Goosic View Drop Down
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IMR3031 is actually a very good powder to use for the 303.
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shiloh View Drop Down
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It is indeed, It`s pretty much all I`ve ever used for 303 and 223, How ever, I latched onto 2 lbs of 4064, then havn`t been able to get 303 jacketed bullets.
Plus the owner of the shop wants $60/lb, some other money brains can pay that not me.
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Goosic View Drop Down
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Points: 8842 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 3:45pm
The last time I sent a box of bullets to an acquaintance in Canada.  I shipped it as, "Antique Brass Buttons." 
Nudge nudge, wink wink, know what I mean know what I mean?
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Canuck View Drop Down
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Goosic, any time I ship small rifle parts outside of Canada, I always put on the document "antique sewing machine parts". Never had an issue.
Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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Goosic View Drop Down
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The following information is listed by trusted reloading manuals and as such, i will not be held responsible for any incidents that may occur, up to and including death. 
The information supplied is for the 180grn bullets designed to be used with the 303 British cartridge.  Nowhere did it list a specific type, ie: Round Nose, Flatbased, Boattail Hollow Point, or cast.
(My recommendation if you use either IMR4064, IMR4895,  or IMR3031 and are reloading using cast bullets would be to, reduce the load using the max load for those powders and multiple by .6 and then work the load up from there.)
IMR4064  40.7 x .6 = 24.42 grns starting load
IMR4895  41.6 x .6 = 24.9 grns  starting load
IMR3031  38.8 x .6 = 23.28 grns starting load
Sidenote: The second picture is taken from the Lee Loader Whack A Mole chart...
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shiloh View Drop Down
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Thanx Gossic for posting these load data charts, the whack-a-Mole one is perfect, all you need for 303.
I did use the 60% of max formula to get reduced data via imr4064 for the 170grain casts I`m using.
I read that shooting cast one should try to keep the velocities down to avoid loading up the barrel with lead.
Its been fun so far, as I`ve never loaded cast cartridge rounds before, it`s definitely a learning curve. and I appreciate all input.
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I’m not aware of any published data for cast lead bullets in .303 using medium burn rate rifle powders.  Maybe there is, but I have not seen any.  

The Lyman 49th Ed. Cast Bullet Notebook shows 6 powders for a 200 gr cast bullet for the .303 British: Unique, 2400, SR-4759, IMR-4227, XMP-5744 and IMR-4198.  These are all fairly fast burning powders, faster than IMR-3031.  Unique and 2400 are pistol powders.  

Doesn’t mean that medium rifle powders won’t work, but I don’t recall seeing published data for it.  By necessity, you must use reduced loads with cast bullets to keep velocities below jacketed bullets and most medium burn rifle powders are not a good choice for that application.  
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Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I’m not aware of any published data for cast lead bullets in .303 using medium burn rate rifle powders.  Maybe there is, but I have not seen any.
I found this.  It gives two bullet weights but uses the same charge weight for both bullets using, for the most part, "H4895, BL-C(2), H380" Medium burn powders. If you use Hodgdons mathematical formula using the H4895 max charge of 34.0 x .6 = 20.4 starting grains. The Hodgdon reloading manual #26 gives a max charge weight of 38.0 grns of H4895 using a 180grn Sierra SP. It would be expected then that, a safe charge weight scale, within a reasonable margin for a cast bullet of the same weight to be between 20.4grns starting and 24.4grns max charge weight. IMR4064 has a starting weight of 37.0 ,exactly  the same as Varget using the Sierra 180grn SP. If you use the formula 37.0 x .6 = 22.2grns starting weight, you have a working load using a cast bullet. Not exceeding 25.5grns, just to be safe of excessive lead fouling while still producing sufficient velocities... Sidenote: I added the IMR powders because they have identical burn rates including  the Varget. 
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I don’t have the Hodgdon Reloading Manual, I’ve used their online data.  What year is that manual published? 

 I am aware of Hodgdons recommendation for reduced loads (60% of max) for H4895, but not seen that for other powders.  I’ve seen numerous reports of ignition problems with Varget in reduced loads, such that Hodgdon has increased the minimum charges of Varget in most all Rifle calibers.  Varget is similar to IMR 4064 burn rate.

4198 and 4227 are fairly fast powders, in the vicinity of 5744 which is a good powder for cast bullets. I’m surprised BL-C(2) in on here, but it is close to H4895, so perhaps it has good ignition properties with reduced charges. 
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The online manuals are good but overwhelmingly for jacketed bullets.  I think cast recipes only exist for cartridges that typically have cast bullets. For example Hodgdon lists a load for Cast in 45-70, which is available commercially with cast bullets.  But for 303 British, they only have data for jacketed.

For discussion, I suggest the "Cast Boolets" website.  Or, if you want an actual manual, the lyman cast bullet reloading manual is available for free online at "open library.org."  It is an older text, but still has good data.  Lyman 47th also lists various loads, starting with as little as 10 gr Red Dot.

I use Green dot and have loaded as light as 7 grains under a plain-based Lee 312-155 (e.g. no gas check).  I have found the need to "beagle" (shim the mold) to get the bullets fat enough for my 0.314 groove diameter No 5.  'Beagling" makes slightly out-of-round bullets but they compress in the barrel and I have had good results.
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Points: 3049 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2022 at 7:48am
I found an article on using #2400 powder in 30 cal including 303B, the formula states 16gr max, and its not position sensitive.
Now to find some, ya right......, lots of formulas but no fuel.
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Shiloh, is this article online? Do you have a link or an author/title to it?
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I use the same article as Shiloh.  I use H4198 with cast in my 2A1 with good success.  
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