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Olddust View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 02 2022 at 9:02am
Finally tried some reduced loads in my 49 Fazmk2. 
A friend hooked me up with some Lee 155gr casts that he uses in his sks. Sized at 312.
 Once fired S&B brass neck sized and loads from 16-21 gr of IMR 4227. First raised rear 12 moa. Not enough 16gr not on paper but the velocity was very consistent. 
I finalized on 32moa to get in the center at 50m 
20gr load is a keeper, here is  5 shots off the bag on the SR target we use in virtual match.
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Dragunov View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dragunov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 9:30am
Awesome, I have not as yet tried the 4227 and cast in .303. Will give this a go. Was using a .314 diameter Accurate Molds (31-155D) with Ed Harris' "The Load' (13 grains of Red Dot) and had trouble with consistency. 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Excellent result! 

 Lyman Cast Bullet Notebook 4th Ed. gives a max charge of 28.2 grains of IMR 4227 with a 180 grain bullet with a MV of 2132 fps.  You should be able pump up the load some more and see how it groups, although the lighter bullet will travel faster, so will have to watch for bore leading.   That will bring your rear sight down too.  The recommended starting load is 20 grains with a 180 gr bullet (MV of 1616 fps). 

As another data point, my old Lyman 45th Ed. gives a starting load of 25 gr of IMR 4227 with MV of 2066 fps and max load of 28 gr with MV of 2217 fps for a 155 gr cast bullet with gas check (#2 Alloy).  Be aware though that this is from a 1970 reloading manual and powder composition may have changed since that time.  
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Points: 1862 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 11:53am
Thats interesting, I`ll have to re visit this. I found lil`gun, H110, win 296 and imr 4227 have close burn rates lil`gun being slightly faster than imr 4227 as listed in a 2019 burn rate chart I have.
I still have a box full of PC`d 170gr cast, blk powder gave inconsistent results, though a blast to shoot, and using 4064 reduced with a filler was too much work, and probably dangerous to boot.
Any data out there using lil`gun?
 answered, Everything I just read says not to use lil`gun for reduced loads in 303, creates too much pressure, it seems to be a weird powder, works well in small calibres and 3" 410 hulls. I`ll save it for my 30 carbine.
shoot em if you got em
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Olddust View Drop Down
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Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Excellent result! 

 Lyman Cast Bullet Notebook 4th Ed. gives a max charge of 28.2 grains of IMR 4227 with a 180 grain bullet with a MV of 2132 fps.  You should be able pump up the load some more and see how it groups, although the lighter bullet will travel faster, so will have to watch for bore leading.   That will bring your rear sight down too.  The recommended starting load is 20 grains with a 180 gr bullet (MV of 1616 fps). 

As another data point, my old Lyman 45th Ed. gives a starting load of 25 gr of IMR 4227 with MV of 2066 fps and max load of 28 gr with MV of 2217 fps for a 155 gr cast bullet with gas check (#2 Alloy).  Be aware though that this is from a 1970 reloading manual and powder composition may have changed since that time.  


Yes I have a scan of the pages from both of those manuals. I only have 100m range to shoot at locally, and honestly Velocity is not a concern for these practice loads. I want economical practice with the rifle.
I used no filler in any of the tests
I recorded velocity of the 20gr load average @1627fps
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britrifles View Drop Down
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I’d have a tough time shooting with the rear sight elevation up that high, especially if shooting prone.  Off bench not so bad…but strain on the neck in prone would be very uncomfortable for me. 
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Olddust View Drop Down
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Points: 130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olddust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

I’d have a tough time shooting with the rear sight elevation up that high, especially if shooting prone.  Off bench not so bad…but strain on the neck in prone would be very uncomfortable for me. 
That is unfortunate! 32 MOA or equates to just about a third of an  inch (0.32”) of actual movement in the rear sight. How do you manage long range shooting? 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Points: 5298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 5:08pm
The Vintage Rifle Matches I shoot the No. 4 in are all at 200 yards.  My C4/5/6 vertebrae are fused together, it’s extremely difficult to shoot prone with a high rear sight position.  In the prone position, my cheekbone rests on my right thumb which wraps around the small off the butt stock.  This supports the full weight of my head and brings my eye in alignment with the sights. 

I have shot the No. 4 out to 600 yards which requires 18 MOA elevation above my 200 yd zero and it’s not comfortable for me.  Even harder at 1000 yards…
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Dragunov View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dragunov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 5:51pm
Brit, that is amazing that you can carry on and shoot in such a physical condition.  Gotta be very tough!
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Look at his handle!
Whats the British national animal?
The bulldog.
It, once having bitten you, will hang on till its teeth fall our from old age.
This is in no way a derogatory post, quite the opposite.
Thumbs Up
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Points: 5298 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 6:06pm
Prone slow fire is a killer for me, especially the 20 round strings.  My heart rate goes way up, impossible for me to relax.  We have 20 minutes for the 20 round string, after 10, I’ll roll onto my side and tilt my head down to take the strain off.  With the AR, I had to find the lowest rise scope mount available.  I tried shooting a Springfield A1 USMC Sniper, no way, impossible for me.  Not sure how much longer I’ll be able to do it, I wished I had started this when I was much younger. 
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Points: 13449 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2022 at 8:06pm
great shooting , i have also become a cast bullet shooter - oh and some round balls as well but powder is getting tuff to get - there are too many serious BP shooters looking to scarf up what they need to leave much for us occasional shooters these days 
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Olddust View Drop Down
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Brit rifles:kudos! keep going till you cant.

  I am always looking for ways to lower my costs. I also have an itch to try some 32 acp pistol bullets. My bore leads, and I wonder if I could get away pistol bullets in place of the cast. I can get .311 and .312  for approx .10 a piece.
Anyone try them in reduced loads?
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Dragunov View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dragunov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2022 at 6:33pm
I have successfully loaded .312 diameter 115 FN lead (made for the .32-20) in neck-sized  only brass with 6 grains of Bullseye. Make for a fun 50 yard plinker/critter-getter. Raised that rear sight up quite a bit, as I recall.
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That’s pretty good at 50 take it out to 100 and see how it goes 
I’ve been playing with cast for a few years now and all the fast burning powders are good starting with about 16gr 
In Australia we get ar2206h and it’s not to bad in the 303 starting with 25gr
There is a good read on cast bullets in the 303 
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Dragunov View Drop Down
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Points: 192 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dragunov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2022 at 6:17am
Pisco, I'd like to but currently the backstop on my place allows for a max of 65 yds....so I just set up the picnic table at 50. Lots of the thick stuff on my land that minimizes long shots on the squirrels and raccoons. This would be about as functional with most pistol powders with a similar amount at a similar range.
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