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VAnimrod View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 25 2008 at 10:05pm
I'm curious about a couple options re: Enfield customizations.

Consider this just the type of stuff that rattles through a rifle loony's head on a 700 mile road trip.....

Anyway, could a standard SMLE be converted to Russian 7.62x54R with just a simple rechamber job?

And, could one take a No.4MkI/II and convert to the .473" bolt face family via a rebarrel, and installation of an Ishapore magazine and bolt head (or just an Ishapore extractor)?
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Points: 3389 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2008 at 10:20pm
The 303 to 7.62x54R conversion has been done the only issue is 7.62x54R usues .310" bullets were as must 303s have a .312 groove diameter. It works in some rifle and accuracy is poor in others.
 
The were a number of No4 that were converted to 7.62 Nato by the British Government after they adopted the FN, THe new modele was called the L-8 and there were several variations. The bolt head are out there a bit tricky to find as are 7.62 nato no4 magazines.
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Originally posted by VAnimrod VAnimrod wrote:

I'm curious about a couple options re: Enfield customizations.

Consider this just the type of stuff that rattles through a rifle loony's head on a 700 mile road trip.....

Anyway, could a standard SMLE be converted to Russian 7.62x54R with just a simple rechamber job?

And, could one take a No.4MkI/II and convert to the .473" bolt face family via a rebarrel, and installation of an Ishapore magazine and bolt head (or just an Ishapore extractor)?


Many guns will also require that the receiver is opened up to allow the larger 54r case head to pass into the chamber.
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Tony View Drop Down
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Points: 3256 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2008 at 12:45pm
There is also a pressure issue! The 762x54 has a much higher pressure than the standard NATO 762 round and the enfield just isn't up to taking the pasting the russian rounds dish out.  My lad has a Dragurnov sniper rifle in 762x54 and the loading data is the same as the 308 winchester not 762 NATO.
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White Rhino View Drop Down
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Points: 5153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2008 at 8:58am
Thanks for the info Tony....
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Cookie Monster View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Tony Tony wrote:

There is also a pressure issue! The 762x54 has a much higher pressure than the standard NATO 762 round and the enfield just isn't up to taking the pasting the russian rounds dish out.  My lad has a Dragurnov sniper rifle in 762x54 and the loading data is the same as the 308 winchester not 762 NATO.
 

Very good point Tony!

 The working pressures of the 7.62x54R are comparable to the .308 Winchester and the 30-06 Springfield. Which is well above the safe working pressures of the Enfield and 7.62 NATO receivers. Also as Richard/SIA mentioned the receiver will have to be enlarged to accept the larger Russian rounds which would weaken the receiver even further.

 

The Springfield Armory found this out in the early 1900’s when they used the same process in manufacturing receivers for the M1903. They were hardened in the same manner as the receivers for the 30-40 Krag. The Krag’s working pressure was well below  the 30-06 ball ammo specs. Thus resulting in several receiver failures. And this was done by an Armory that knew what they were doing!!!!! Just think what may happen to a “Bubba” the garage gunsmith conversion?

 

As Tony, Dave and I have warned in the past it is not wise to interchange ammo just because it is physically and dimensionally the same size. There is much more to ballistics then the physical appearance of firearm cartridges. This also applies to rechambering as well, just because the bore is the same diameter does not mean it will be an easy change to another cartridge. Just reaming the chamber is not that simple. Please exercise extreme caution when considering reworking or purchasing a modified firearm.   
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Lithgow View Drop Down
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Good advice Cookie
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Thank you Lithgow!

 I also give credit to Dave and Tony as well. They preach the same thing.
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Lithgow View Drop Down
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Points: 1417 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2008 at 2:33pm
There has been much written about 308 vs 7.62mm.
They are externally  the same but the shells of the Military stuff are thicker and headspace specs are different.
Pressures are also different and anybody considering interchanging the two rounds should research carefully and make an informed decision.
For my No4 conversion, I only use 7.62 ball ammo (NATO) but when I run out of that I will keep my loads down to a safe level.
I believe There is a load called managed recoil or something similar which is a lower pressure 308 cartridge.
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Tony View Drop Down
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Points: 3256 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 27 2008 at 9:35pm
I think Dave has the info for 762 nato round reloads if not he'll know a man that has the info.

go to www.Davetheoracle.com
Rottie (PitBulls dad.)


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Points: 5153 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2008 at 7:54am
Some place I had looked at for some reloading data actualy had 7.62x51 NATO load chart.... I was in a hurry to get off the compuker so the Wife could find some thing and forgot to mark the site.. will try and keep my eyes open for it next time I look up data...
"White Rhino"

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Smokey View Drop Down
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The Hodgon website has the following: http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
150 GR. NOS BT  Hodgdon  H4895  .308"  2.800"  43.0  2742  43,200 CUP 
This is a starting load for the .308 Winchester.
If you use military brass, reduce the powder charge 5%.
What you are looking for is something that comes close to a 147gr FMJBT at 2750fps, with reasonable pressure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 01 2009 at 7:19am
100 gn jacketed  H322 41gns (oal 2.530)
110 gn jacketed  IMR4831 =47gns  H4381 =50gns  H4350=47gns IMR4350=47gns  (please note Imr Loads OAL =2.600 & HOD LOADS =2.530)

130GN JACKETED  H350= 47GNS    H4831=50GNS     2.530 MIN OAL

 165GN JACKETED  H4350=47GNS      H4831=50GNS  2.530 MIN OAL

   180GN JACKETED  IMR4831=46GNS      IMR4350=46GNS   2.725  MIN OAL


 Please note these loads are for rifles in good condition  & do not exceed 40,000 CUP!    They are  both starting & never exceed loads !!!!  But have been deemed safe in  Enfield convertions

  These are some examples of 7.62 NATO loads . As my Learned colleagues have pointed out, Rechambering a Enfield action (unless it was a Pat 14 or 1917 ) to 7.62X 54 is akin to slamming your genitals in a car door !
    Rounds like the  45-70 ,38-55 ,30-30 ,32spl,7-30 waters , even the 444,work well within the pressure perimeters! You will note that these are all rounds that are used in Lever actions where pressures are much lower

         Dave   
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