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shimming to fix "off" bedding.

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Shamu View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 26 2014 at 1:30am

Carrying on the saga of fitting the #5 back from Billy & Barney Bubba-Bob's "Glass Bedding" attempt.
I removed all the "glass" (some kind of gummy epoxy) from the forend tip & the center-braced crosspiece of the forend, which helped. Next I reworked the inletting which was binding on the barrel at 3 points on one side.

As it was shooting so high I also replaced the front sight blade with one from Paddy here (thanks, mateHandshake), so Back to the range for a test.

150 Gr Hornady SP/FBs at 2450 FPS were down 4" from before, now only a couple of inches high, groups were groups, not patterns any more, but still a bit big for my liking averaging 5" @ 100yds supported.

Next I checked the receiver & Knox form bedding. It was a bit "orf" to say the least. The rear bedding was basically a flattened round blob, the front receiver wasn't bad looking, but the Knox was bedded all the way up the sides of the barrel including the lightening cuts in the barrel!

Based on some articles I read on bedding the No4 action I started checking for issues. The forend to stock socket fit was non-existent there was a big enough gap that I could actually look through the gap & see stuff on the other side! I shimmed both the recoil blocks & the rear of the forend to reduce the gap without actually creating contact. (Supposedly there needs to be a narrow, but even gap here, we'll see). I also pulled the forend firmly to the rear as the "King Screw" was tightened so as to move the stock as far rearward as possible with the epoxied collar in place. I really don't want to drill & re insert a new collar if I don't have to.

There was zero clamping force between the trigger guard & the stock bottom at either end.Confused
I shimmed the rear flats with some 0.004" shim aluminum (Thanks Keystone beer coBeer) & that gave the suggested 1/8" "spring" to the trigger guard with the rear bolt fitted but loose.

The front end at the "King Screw" also had no tension, as well as some twit epoxying the spacer to the hole in the wood with the end standing proud instead of recessed so I could clamp the wood between the guard & the action body! ARGHHHHH!

I made up a 9 thou spacer, but it fell out after the bolt was tightenedShocked 9 thou & it wasn't clamping, no wonder this thing "wouldn't shewt fer beanz".
I found some thicker aluminum sheeting & cut a thicker spacer & now I have definite clamping both at the rear & front of the receiver/stock/trigger guard.

For now I just added a thin shim to the left side of the Knox form trying to shift the barrel slightly more to the right in relation to the channel & relieved very slightly on the right to give it somewhere to go. Its currently fee floated in the stock, but I'm not sure if this is “IT” or if I need to remove all the "epoxy" that’s up the sides of the Knox. I guess I'll shoot a few test groups & see if I'm done or not.

Film @ 11.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2014 at 3:23am
It seems we have parallel projects on the go. Let us know how it turns out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2014 at 5:43am
Sounds like it.
Mostly I learned that you need to clamp both the front & the rear so as you "hinge up" the bottom metal (pivoting on the rear trigger guard screw) it tensions the rear mounting points & then as you tighten the big screw it tensions the front end. Its a bit like the Garand/M-14, but almost reversed.

I've read a lot about "King Screw" tension, but very little about tensioning the back end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2014 at 11:30am
Shamu I would concentrate more on repauring the draw area of the stock to pull the forend up hard against the butt socket. All the original in letting and final fitting was done with these two faces firmly in contact.
Have you read any of Peter laidlers articles?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2014 at 10:19pm
I would have done exactly that, but for the bedding of the spacer collar. AS it is I'm trying to fix what exists so I don't have to replace the forend.
I did manage to shim the stock rear & the draws plus creating tension in the rear of the action.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nailcreek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2014 at 10:58am
How about some photos? I'm curious as to what you've done so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2014 at 8:00pm
Shamu, for the work on my No1 MkIII* I've been studying Roger Wadhams 2012 book, which I find an excellent source of info, he also has many videos on youtube regarding accurising the Lee Enfield and they are worth watching as the complement the info in the book. Peter Laidler's articles are also good reading. The "Bolt" article being very useful! They are on Milsurps forum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2014 at 9:15pm
I looked at several sources before I tried anything. What I'm trying is kind of a fusion of several of them. The rear end work is pretty much directly copied from Roger Wadhams video on fitting the action.

Let me get this setup to the range & see if it actually works, or how well then I'll post pics as I'll have to open it all up to make the changes permanent anyway.

The problem is in a way I'm NOT doing accurizing. That assumes I'm starting with a standard, but unfitted stock. What I have is a permanently (& poorly) modified stock I'm trying to rescue. In the service an armourer would simply condemn this stock & fit another, but unfortunately I don't have that option. Because of that I have to work with the lemon I have to make lemonade.Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2014 at 1:25am
I'm sure it will shoot better with a bit of time spent on it. On my SMLE the wood has been replaced, and while it looks fabulous outside, it has not had the proper adjusted fit that it should have got. So thats were I'm starting out at the moment. There are still a few bits to check to get that right; but it has gone from over 6 MOA to about 4 MOA at present so it's improving. but I won't be able to get working on it for a couple of weeks Unhappy
With the original barrel it was closer to 12 MOA; I was absolutely gutted the first time I took it to the range!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2014 at 5:02am
I think you have the right idea. Fox the most obvious problem first. Then test & fix the next one. Step & repeat till you get no further improvement! With me it was the globs of epoxy in the barrel channel, they just had to go.

Now its how far up the sides of the breech the epoxy should go. Next is gong to be should I hack out the glass work & start over with a donor stock or try a rebuild.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MaxP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2014 at 6:01am
Probably comes down to how much time and money you want to spend re bubba'ing bubba. If you just want to shoot it, get a ramline plastic stock for a No4 and re glass bed it into it. If you want to restore it, time to look for better woodwork. Even a good No4 foreend to start with and go from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2014 at 9:20pm
I'm thinking of wood if I replace it. I have a sporter butt-stock in walnut so all I'd need would be a walnut forend from Boyds if I go that route.

Unfortunately the matching walnut forend is also Bubba'd so I'm right back where I started unless I buy a replacement anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2014 at 11:17pm
Well, shimming to put tension on the receiver front & back did something all right. It dropped the POI by about 6" so it is now printing exactly where the original front sight would have been had I not swapped it out for a different one to bring the POA & POI together.


Unfortunately it has also introduced horrible horizontal stringing! Groups (if you can call them that) are in a diagonal line about 1 1/2" high by 8" across at 100 yds benched & bagged fore & aft.Dead

I'm beginning to think this stock has more damage than I can repair & as I can't find a forend for either a No5 as such, or a No4 that I can field convert as armorers did then I'm gong to have to swap for a Boyds sporter set of furniture to make this a shooter.


I do have a bubba'd sporter forend that might be rescuable, so the next step is to try that at least for now to see if I can somehow get it to bed properly. I'm going to have to start somewhere else though as its a Mk2 forend with the missing wood at the back & no bracing strap.

I'll take some pics of the shimming as I tear the poor old thing down.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2014 at 2:25am
Is it possible the shimming at the rear end has pushed the draws away from the lugs?  I would think to have a good wedged fit between the draws and lugs would require a little free space between the underside of the receiver at the rear and the top of the wood behind the draws. This is just an assumption, I am not experienced enough to know exactly what's going on; but you did have a group of 5" and now it's changed into an 8" string. So something has changed. Has the butt stock come loose? that can send them off a bit as well.
Also from the little I've read about the No5; it would appear that it is unlikely to shoot as well as your No4.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2014 at 5:22am
Anything is possible with this poor old thing.Cry

Here are some pics after I removed the "bedding" from the barrel channel. This is the horror story I'm trying to fix.

I have a nice walnut butt stock if I have to go the sporter route.  The forend is almost as bad though. Its been hogged out & converted to a Mk2 by having the rear end jigsawed.

To be fair to the seller I bought this as a butt stock & some "scrap wood" as walnut is getting to be hard to find.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 02 2014 at 5:30am
Sorry the site missed the shot of the insides of the receiver area.

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