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Help identifying Lee-Enfield Model

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SailFlow View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 14 2020 at 5:51pm

he!!o,


I am in need of some help in identifying the type of Enfield I acquired recently. From what i gather it is a sporterized  Birmingham Small Arms Company Lee-Enfield Rifle.  There is no model number located on the rifle its self . Please see images for Identification. 



Thank you. 













 

K.T
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote terrylee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2020 at 12:31am
A BSA commercial SMLE. Appears to have been one of those expropriated and marked by the South African Government during the Second World War. Possibly used for training then returned or sold off post war. Sporterised more recently.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2020 at 12:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SailFlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2020 at 8:51am
Thank you both very much for the help . Enfields and thier history always fascinate me. 

Thank you agian.


K.T
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratboycure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2020 at 8:45pm
Greetings all hope you are well. I have Inherited an SMLE from my late father. I know it was purchased for him from sears canada in the 60's. Fortunately the family could not afford the super delux model where they absolutely rape them so i think mine escaped with its "original" stock...what is left of it anyhow. Beyond that i don't assume to know anything for certain. The story i have come up with may contain elements of fact. I will greatfully accept help and opinions or clarification.
I am pretty sure it was built in 1915 at the Birmingham factory. It may have been a model 3 orriginally then marked star at a later date. All of the other intentional 3* seem to have a more official looking star wjere mine looks like a punch was bashed and wiggled about for a bit. Or maybe it was a mrk 111* intended and just had a modified 111 band. So it looks like it server in WW1 and stayed in service. Was rebarreld by a dyslexic in 40s and sold to sears after the war.  Sound about right. Hopefully i can figure out how to attach photos.
Thanks for having me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 8:47am
I'm guessing it was originally sold as this & later sporterised.
It was perfectly legal "back in the Day" to have as a civvy a full-patch .303 British military rifle, (provided of course you were British, not some blasted "Johnny Foreigner")  Shocked:

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 9:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 9:29am
you are correct in the mfrg at BSAco in 1915 , and it does have what appears to be a 40 bbl , so i would guess service in WWII as well as WWI , 

BSA was in transition from mkIII to mkIII* in late 1915 so could have been made either depending on when it was made , Y38679 looks to be the original SN and that can be looked up to indicate roughly when it was made but ill say i question the 5 digit number ,
if original that is a later rifle and could be an early mkIII* , it could also have been upgraded when that barrel was put on , 

numbers dont match on the bbl & receiver which would indicate after market switchout or as you said dyslexia but i doubt it would clear inspection , , does the bolt match ? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratboycure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 10:23am
Originally posted by The Armourer The Armourer wrote:

QUOTE=Shamu]
I'm guessing it was originally sold as this & later sporterised.
It was perfectly legal "back in the Day" to have as a civvy a full-patch .303 British military rifle, (provided of course you were British, not some blasted "Johnny Foreigner")  Shocked:


That day was a very long time ago - the requirement to have a Gun Licence in the UK came into force in 1870.
The 1920 Firearms Act updated and strengthened the law.

After the WW2 many 1000's of 'firearms' were converted to 410 shotguns as whilst the person needed a basic licence the shotguns were not registered, the owners licence was a couple if shillings from the Post Office.
We still had food rationing until the mid '50s and the 410 Lee Enfield put many a meal on the table.


We have 'always' had restrictive licensing for firearms and much more freedom for shotguns.

Even today you can carry an uncovered shotgun and ammunition in a public space (Shopping Mall for example) and be fully compliant with the law.

[/QUOTE]
Funny funny well i am not a Johnny... Might be a Timmy. Canadian here so Brit lite. We share a queen and i would die for her. Yeah every part on it seems to match with exeption of those two numbers being switched on the replacement barrel done in the 40's (i am assuming at Bsa) my dad received it as a teen he said (cant ask anymore on account of him not being alive) he told me it came from Sears as it is. Not sure if that scope was part of that but it is the right make and vintage for sesrs in the mid to late 60s. It is still in my possession but looks like pops switvhed it at some point.looks like the original stock. Brass butt and that little wood plug. That is to replace the brass unit marker!? 
Appreciate the help thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 3:58pm
Oh, Commonwealth were considered "British" so no problem. Subject of the Crown & all that good stuff. My Grandfather was Canadian, as was my Father, My Gramps taught me to shoot, my father wasn't a shooter.

Those "odd Fizzy Wuzzie chaps" were an entirely different kettle of fish though! Censored
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 4:17pm
My Grandfather was Candian.

My Father was a ABC as both of his parent's where Candian, American born Candian.
Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratboycure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

you are correct in the mfrg at BSAco in 1915 , and it does have what appears to be a 40 bbl , so i would guess service in WWII as well as WWI , 

BSA was in transition from mkIII to mkIII* in late 1915 so could have been made either depending on when it was made , Y38679 looks to be the original SN and that can be looked up to indicate roughly when it was made but ill say i question the 5 digit number ,
if original that is a later rifle and could be an early mkIII* , it could also have been upgraded when that barrel was put on , 

numbers dont match on the bbl & receiver which would indicate after market switchout or as you said dyslexia but i doubt it would clear inspection , , does the bolt match ? 

I am guessing it was a either an early 3* or a late convert with that barrel swap. All the parts match numberwise receiver, bolt, front sights (non wingage with the push button on the left and a gnurled spindle on the right)and the barrel is marked by an Armourer the only discrepancy is the 79 97 there and if that is just by sheer chance it might be even cooler. I am guessing getting arms in hand was a higher priority than double checking serial numbers but i dont really know my head from my butt when it comes to such matters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratboycure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2020 at 5:28pm
If i have my family history correct my Great gramps on my mothers side "earned" his way to a Saskatchewan homestead by fighting my Gratgrandmothers family in the Boer wars. A long line of soldiers prceded him. My fathers side is blurry as. I know they were Metis and somewhere in the Dakotas. My gramps was orphaned and sent to Canada in a murder mystery scenario. His siblings were sent to California to be raised by relatives. As far as i 
can tell that side never ever served any nation in any capacity aside from maybe hired guides during the indian wars (total unsubstantiated speculation) So i was raised in a family where war was not on the menu but had a very very very long military service for the British crown. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2020 at 12:54am



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ratboycure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2020 at 9:36am
yeah good call. There was certainly never a cutoff on this model...so 3* from birth. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 19 2020 at 7:31pm
please - lets use the correct nomenclature - mkIII* if british made or austrailian , and mk3* if indian made . its one or the other and it does make a difference , not interchangeable in our discussions of correctness , my tip of the hat to tony and ...........
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