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help to identify my Enfield

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Tpb234 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tpb234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: help to identify my Enfield
    Posted: January 28 2024 at 9:47am
he!!o all, I have owned this Enfield since 1986, however I have not had any experts give me a proper expanation of its provenance/age/history.
I enclose some images, hopefully you can shed some light.
I can see it is 1917, and was told it was Air force issue (although that was probably guesswork).
Thanks for your input.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2024 at 3:04pm
The images are dark & tiny. very hard to read clearly.
Can you post some larger, lighter ones? That would be a big help.
Natural window light is much better than flash s well & a darker background would help lighten a lot.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 28 2024 at 5:12pm
i would agree with the request but im not able to see that well anymore so please satisfy the request and depend on those that reply as they see better than i these days , it looks a lovely rifle from what we can see 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tpb234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2024 at 11:49am
Thanks, I will try to get better images.
The markings near the trigger are (from top) a crown symbol, GR, 1917, Enfield, SMLE 111. The new image is a close up of area in front of the bolt

Kind regards [IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2024 at 2:22pm
From your post.
It was made in 1917 in the reign of King George the Vth. Possibly by Birmingham Small Arms (because of the "ShtLE" identifier which was BSA's way of saying "SMLE", no matter, they are the exact same design.
Its a Short Magazine Lee Enfield (SMLE), also known a "Rifle No1 MkIII *", a simplified update to the earlier No1 MkIII (no star). No mater all these names indicate the exact same rifle.

It was made for military use, not civilian sale (the "crown" (Royal Cypher)) tells us this.
"I 7300" is the serial number & should be found on the receiver, barrel, under the rear sight, bolt, nosecap bayonet boss & under the forend, possibly on the bottom of the magazine also, but maybe not, not all were numbered. Matching numbers matters because little hand fittings were done to make it good & safe & the numbers track this. The prefix letter denotes the "lot" made, the number rotated from nothing through "A" to "Z" & then "AA", "AB" & so on.

Stamps to look for:
Crown NP, or Crown BNP, Civillian proof tests, may also have "2.222" & 18 1/2 ton (a square). Pressure proofs for civilian purposes. Not use or required my military, & so indicate a sale to the commercial market. A "Star" (actually 2 facing & touching "Broad Arrows" (birds feet)) denote removed from military rolls. These are fairly large. A small asterix on the breech indicates something else, as does thew one after the Mark & model information. Also look for an "FTR" stamp, these indicate a factory rebuild at some point in its life. Not a concern rifles were routinely overhauled, upgrade to the current model & refurbished.

There will be many, many small stamps everywhere. These are inspectors check stamps & many of them checked many things, bit they & the items checking or gauging are mostly lost to history. Its military history is harder, they weren't really checked IN & OUT that much, so much of it is also missing. Some had a brass d**k about the size of a nickel inletted with a unit code, but yours seems to gave been removed or never inlettt. Again no biggie many were as it gave away information if they were captured.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sapper740 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 29 2024 at 3:49pm
Yes, it's possible it was issued to the RAF after the war, or the Royal Flying Corps during the war but it is unlikely it was carried aboard an aircraft, most likely issued to guards around the base.  The few rifles carried onboard the aircraft by the observer were pistols, shotguns, or cut down M.L.E.'s or the odd S.M.L.E.s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tpb234 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2024 at 10:14am
Many thanks for the wonderful replies! Very helpful, you guys know your stuff! I'm intrigued by the cross swords with an N and R and 89 under?

Thanks again for the information, very interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2024 at 11:06am
If you take a look down in the "Info for new owners" & "links" sections, there's a couple of resources for markings & some links to even more.
Give it a shot you might get lucky!Thumbs Up
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2024 at 12:12pm
i think that to be an inspection mark , but , as shamu mentions you might get an exact answer from that section of the site , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2024 at 3:01pm
IIRC its an old proof mark?
Birmingham Nitro proof!

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 30 2024 at 7:19pm
thats what i was thinking , sorry if i misled , these markings are normal and consistant with production , very seldo you can ID them to a specific person but quite normal to see and they dont tell you anything significant generally , but then thats all in the eye of the researcher sometimes they tell you something you didnt know of these rifles , they are fun to research , not much beyond what you have already gotten here tho , mostly confirm what you have already found , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lallen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2024 at 9:07am
I have a 1942 Enfield No. 4 Service rifle. 303 caliber. Serial number 1904 S 79. There is a square S below the serial number. On the bottom of the Stock is stamped 5. On top of the barrel is 5vs.
This gun was presented to my Father in Law in recognition of his service at a munitions factory. Test fired once at the factory. Recently cleaned and test fired by a gunsmith. Does anyone have any information about this gun? It is not stamped US Property. I have the original owners manual along with a letter from R.R. Klanderman, Colonel, ORD department Field Director of Munitions Plant Joliet, Illinois. I have someone interested in buying it but have no idea of the value or history
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2024 at 2:07pm
From what you said, it is likely a Savage made No. 4 Mk I rifle. We will need photos of it to confirm. The Serial Number doesn’t make much sense, it should be in the format of #C####. 

If it’s an unissued rifle in excellent condition, it would be worth north of $1200 USD.  Probably not many Savage Mk I rifles still around, the Mk I* with the simplified bolt release and 2 groove barrel was introduced shortly after the start of production in 1942 with serial numbers in the 7C8xxx range. 

It would be better to start your own thread on this rather than adding on to an existing thread about someone else’s rifle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2024 at 12:10am
Lallen, why would you sell a rifle that was presented to your Father? 
It would be an honour to own such a rifle! I'm not trying to be argumentative; I just don't understand why anyone would not want to keep it in the family! 

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 02 2024 at 10:07pm
my thought as well , why not keep it ? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shiloh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 03 2024 at 4:18am
If it has the early front sight button cocking piece and is indeed a Mk1,  here in Canada, the price would be pretty greedy, way north of 2 grand.
But as the others have said it`s a legacy piece, unless your not a gunner then the point is moot.

As for Tpb234`s rifle its a 1917 made `Enfield` SHt LE so 107 yrs since its birthday. Can`t tell from the pictures if it was through an FTR. During the  WW2 RAF rifles were issued blue slings so it could be an "air force rifle" Looks very nice and complete.
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