Firing the No5 MK1 first time

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   When I was given the rifle it included eleven rounds of PPU SP ammo.  I ran through those and a couple of newer ones too.  The front sight is visibly offset from center, to the right.  Probably around .025".  That stands to reason because at 50 yds it's hitting completely off the 12" target.   I moved to 25 yds and it's on the target but about 6" to the left.  I aim 6" to the right and it hits bullseye.   I suppose I need to adjust the front sight, starting by putting it back to center.    Elevation seemed to be about the  same with both the flipped down larger aperture and the flipped up smaller one cranked down all the way.   This would be moving the front sight to the left to move the point of impact to the right.  Does that sound right?  The recoil doesn't seem to be that bad.  If I had to compare with something I'd guess it's about the same as I remember shooting a single barrel .410.   That's a nice surprise to me.  I was told to expect more.   I was thinking of adding some padding but if first impressions are accurate, it probably won't be necessary.  Overall it was a lot of fun to shoot.  I'm looking forward to getting the sights set up properly and seeing just how accurately it can shoot.  Depending on me of course.

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TominDallas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: September 28 2016 Location: Dallas Tx Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote TominDallas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Firing the No5 MK1 first time Posted: October 03 2016 at 8:22am
	When I was given the rifle it included eleven rounds of PPU SP ammo. I ran through those and a couple of newer ones too. The front sight is visibly offset from center, to the right. Probably around .025". That stands to reason because at 50 yds it's hitting completely off the 12" target. I moved to 25 yds and it's on the target but about 6" to the left. I aim 6" to the right and it hits bullseye. I suppose I need to adjust the front sight, starting by putting it back to center. Elevation seemed to be about the same with both the flipped down larger aperture and the flipped up smaller one cranked down all the way. This would be moving the front sight to the left to move the point of impact to the right. Does that sound right? The recoil doesn't seem to be that bad. If I had to compare with something I'd guess it's about the same as I remember shooting a single barrel .410. That's a nice surprise to me. I was told to expect more. I was thinking of adding some padding but if first impressions are accurate, it probably won't be necessary. Overall it was a lot of fun to shoot. I'm looking forward to getting the sights set up properly and seeing just how accurately it can shoot. Depending on me of course.

A square 10 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Online Points: 16998	Post Options Post Reply Quote A square 10 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 03 2016 at 7:45pm
	these are a battle rifle , they were set up for 300/600 minute of man , intended to hit to neutralize , they are not a target rifle yet many here shoot them as such , i will let them chime in ,

TominDallas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: September 28 2016 Location: Dallas Tx Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote TominDallas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 03 2016 at 9:24pm
	Yes of course it was never intended to be a long range accurate rifle but it's hitting in the same place consistently. This can be adjusted down to hitting what I'm aiming at, instead of a consistent 6" to the left. If any rifle I own consistently made 1" groups at 100 yards it would cease to be much fun after a short while. I believe it can be sighted-in to be much better and remain challenging. If I were depending on a rifle to put food on the table or to protect me from an enemy I'd use one of my other rifles much better suited to that task. This one is purely for fun and I never intend on killing anything more dangerous than paper targets or plastic bottles. The fact that it's historically significant makes it much more interesting. I'm looking forward to tweeking the sights and seeing just how accurately it can be shot. Thank you for the input.

Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 04 2016 at 4:26am
	You are correct in moving the front sight in the direction of the error. If it shoots left you move the front sight blade left. You can calculate how far to move it by a simple(ish) mathematical formula. It works for all firearms and will save ammo expended in guesswork! You need to measure the distance between the front and rear sight. Call that "A" You need to know the distance from the muzzle to target. Call that "B" You need to know the error on target. Call that "C" The adjustment required we'll call "X" Multiply "A" by "B" and divide the total by "C"; This will give you "X" You have to use the same units so lets do it in inches Example! Lets say "A" =20" "B"= 6" and "C" 1800" (50 yards = 1800 inches) 20x6= 120 120 divided by 1800 = 0.066" So you need to move the front sight 66 thousandths of an inch to the left for 6" of error at 50 yards if your rifle has 20" distance between the sights.
	It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

TominDallas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: September 28 2016 Location: Dallas Tx Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote TominDallas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 04 2016 at 8:20pm
	I appreciate the input Zed. The movable front piece is actually hanging over about .030 to the right. I did a little net research and found Brownell's website has an automated calculator which uses the same formula you suggested. Whether I plug my values into yours or use Brownell's, I need to move my front sight .153" to the left. That's a lot but it's off a lot. 6" in 25 yds is quite an error to correct. I wish the rear sight had some adjustment but it doesn't.

Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 05 2016 at 8:28am
	Might also be worth checking the fit of the recoil lugs to the fore end; to ensure it's equal fit both sides. I believe any problem there could cause it to throw shots left or right depending on which side is loose. However I doubt the group size would be regular either.
	It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Shamu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shamu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 05 2016 at 9:25am
	Also the barrel channel fit. Mine was feet off when I got it but getting the contact points in the barrel channel fixed made a massive difference.
	Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

Zed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 6460	Post Options Post Reply Quote Zed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 05 2016 at 11:30am
	That's true Shamu; but by getting it right at the rear end you can centre the barrel nicely if the wood is basically straight. When sorting out my No1MkIII* the barrel was not centered in the channel and the groups were awful. To get the wrist snug with the fore end and tight fit on the recoil lugs to centre the barrel; I used brass shims at the lugs; cut from a .303 case; flattened and cut to shape. The brass varies in thickness depending on which part of the case you select which helps get it just right. From there I moved forward to the knox form pad and cleaned up the barrel channel, then finished with a new spring for the nose cap plunger. It made a huge difference to accuracy. The basics should be the same for the No5with exception of the nose cap.
	It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Shamu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shamu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 05 2016 at 1:44pm
	Yes that's the method, start at the back & work forward. I used strips cut from soda cans, they're very thin & soft so you can fold or stack them to get differing thicknesses.
	Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

TominDallas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: September 28 2016 Location: Dallas Tx Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote TominDallas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 06 2016 at 5:42am
	I did indeed notice some play when I moved the forend side-to-side against the barrel. It appears the previous owner addressed this by placing a strip of heavy paper between the barrel and the wood. I cut and formed a piece of dense gasket material .020" thick to cradle the steel against the wood with just a slight preload while bolted in. I've yet to shoot it with this arrangement. This is a work in progress. It appears that the factory may have made it a little sloppy in order to allow for tolerances, or the decades and oil has done something to the wood. I'm sure I'm not done finding a way to positively hold the rifle firmly into the wood. It also appears somebody has at one time or another mounted a scope. Two holes threaded #8-32 drilled inline top/center of the receiver and another #8-32 hole on the flat, under the flip-up rear sight. I find no mention of these holes being factory and of the photos I was able to locate, I don't see them. I haven't tried any fasteners into these holes to insure the exact size but they appear to be 8-32. They will probably never affect the function so I'm really not concerned with them. Not much to be done about them anyway.

MJ11 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: September 18 2008 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 1903	Post Options Post Reply Quote MJ11 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 06 2016 at 9:28am
	My #5 sight pusher. Better than a rock and a nail. Good luck.
	The Spartans do not ask how many the enemies are but where they are

TominDallas Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: September 28 2016 Location: Dallas Tx Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote TominDallas Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: October 06 2016 at 8:24pm
	Well all bets are off. I took a magnifying glass and a flashlight to it. The two holes which are drilled through the muzzle and the top half of the barrel, they're empty. The holes had been covered in dust or lint or ? I blew them out and found them open. I ran pipe cleaners through and examined them closely. No pins. The muzzle is backed out off the end of the barrel and I've no doubt it's not centered down the centerline either. Suppose that would throw the aim off a bit? Took it to my favorite gunsmith and asked him to sort things out for me. Now I wait..... Tom