Enfield No4 MK1 T

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   Here I have a 1943 BSA Enfield T sniper for review. The rifle is parts matching however the scope and mount is a reproduction. There are no scope serial numbers on the wrist and inside the hand guards.

T marks are still present on the stock but I assume it’s a war time replacement since it’s missing the scope serial numbers? Please let me know what you think and thanks for your support! 

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mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Enfield No4 MK1 T Posted: December 18 2024 at 4:55pm
	Here I have a 1943 BSA Enfield T sniper for review. The rifle is parts matching however the scope and mount is a reproduction. There are no scope serial numbers on the wrist and inside the hand guards. T marks are still present on the stock but I assume it’s a war time replacement since it’s missing the scope serial numbers? Please let me know what you think and thanks for your support!

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 3:11am
	I see a few of the expected marking of a T. Is there a “S51” Holland and Holland marking on the underside of the butt stock? Not having scope serial numbers on the butt stock may indicate a scope was never fitted to the rifle. If the stock had been replaced in service, the new one would have been remarked with the scope number. Look for the letter S stamped on the front right side action body where the “lump” for the never fitted magazine cutoff axis pin would be located. Artiozen has posted a very good article on how to identify a genuine No. 4 T written by Roger Payne and David Tomkinson: https://www.artiozen.com/post/4-t-or-not-4-t-that-is-the-question

mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 3:50am
	Thank you so much for the reply!! No S-51 marks present. I do see the S on the action body. I attached a picture for above for reference. Also attached some more pictures for review. So maybe the stock is original but never fitted with a scope? Is this possible? I thought those were only the “T-Less scope” models. Also I’m looking to buy this sniper for $2k.

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 4:43am
	The D6E stamp looks right. I presume that was a unique inspectors mark for the T’s, but I’m not absolutely certain of that. What seems odd to me is that the rifle has the H&H markings but never had a scope fitted. Payne’s article suggests there may have been BSA T’s without scopes fitted, but those did not have the T stamp on the left sidewall. If this is a forgery, someone seems to have replicated the typical stamps/markings. Can you send a photo of the underside butt stock S51 stamp and also the S on the right front action body cutoff lump, I’d like to compare them to my 1944 BSA. If it is a genuine T, without scope, might still be worth the $2000 if it has the reproduction mount and scope which alone is worth about $600. Has the seller shot the rifle with the scope? The odd thing here too is that the scope pads had to be fitted with the bracket and scope that was to be paired with the rifle such that the scope culminated to the bore axis. The No. 32 scope did not have a lot of elevation and windage adjustment to play with. Look very closely at the top front flat surface of the butt stock, just behind the action body butt socket. Someone may have sanded down the butt stock and removed these markings. Ian Skennerton mentions in two of his books, *The Lee Enfield Story* and *The British Sniper* that there were an unknown number of Holland and Holland sniper units supplied without a scope and scope mount. These are believed to be mostly Savage built No. 4 rifles, but perhaps also BSA. They can be identified as being marked S51 on the butt and scope mount pads fitted but no telescope serial number on the butt.

mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 7:17am
	Greetings!! Thank you so much for all the info. I asked the seller and he can’t find any S51 stamp markings. Yes, the shooter has shot it several times to my knowledge. Do you think there are too many red flags?

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 1:12pm
	If I knew it had a good barrel and shot well, I might buy it as a shooter. I’d want to be sure that scope can be zeroed at least out to 600 yards with a usable range of elevation and windage adjustment remaining. Reasonable chance it is legit, but without a matching genuine No. 32 scope and mount, it won’t be worth all that much compared to a complete T. I’d think about $1000 for the rifle and $600 for the repro scope and mount. Some might argue a scope-less T is worth more than a standard No. 4, perhaps true. But it will never be a highly desirable collector No. 4 T with a repro scope and mount.

mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 4:28pm
	Yes I’m trying to get a shooter! Is it a possible fake or do you see enough correct markings?

A square 10 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 16997	Post Options Post Reply Quote A square 10 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 4:52pm
	i see the C-arrow on the muzzle end of the forearm that says it saw canadian service , the 199 in yellow paint looks like a rack number that the cadet schools used

mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 5:12pm
	Interesting…. Below is a link to more pictures as the seller originally bought it from below. https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/rifles/enfield-rifles/--sold--bsa-enfield-no4-mk1-t--sniper-rifle-in--303-british-caliber---legitimate--t-tr--sniper-version---mfg-1943---repro-mount-and-scope--.cfm?gun_id=102404187

Honkytonk Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: December 30 2017 Location: Brandon Mb Status: Offline Points: 5190	Post Options Post Reply Quote Honkytonk Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 5:19pm
	It does look a little beat up... like our cadet DP rifles.

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 5:27pm
	Yes, can’t be the original forend or butt stock (since the butt stock does not have the H&H S51 stamp). Looks like may be a Savage trigger guard. But the TR (Telescopic Rifle) marking appears where it should on the butt socket, the T stamp on the left flat side of the action body and the D6E inspection stamp on the back face of the action body next to the opening for the bolt. Unless these are clever forgeries, it appears to be a No. 4 Mk I (T) less scope. My suggestion that the value of the rifle alone might be $1000 is in recognition that the wood is not original, as well as possibly some of the metal parts. Worth even less if those scope pads and T markings are forgeries. There are some additional markings on the left side of the butt socket that I can’t read. I think in all, to me, it would be worth $1500 IF it had a good barrel and the repro scope was reasonably well culminated to the bore. I’d need evidence that it was so before I put down $1500 for it. But, I’m a shooter of collectible rifles. For a collector, this is probably not the rifle you would want.

mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 5:42pm
	Got it. Thank you so much man! Really pursued all the inside and help

Shamu Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shamu Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 6:11pm
	I never Saw a (T) before with a a Zamac buttplate?
	Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)

A square 10 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 16997	Post Options Post Reply Quote A square 10 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 19 2024 at 7:55pm
	so i read the sellers description , it is fair at best , he has provided faulty info as well as a lot of opinion but ill not quibble further but to say - that is not based off the SMLE [thatr would be a no1 rifle of earlier WW] it is based off the current WWII production no4 rifle , there is a difference , that handguard was 43 production but the grooves do not indicate that as they were producing both the grooved and ungrooved , just depended on which supplier that part came from ,

britrifles Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404	Post Options Post Reply Quote britrifles Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 20 2024 at 12:34am
	Yes, I don’t believe this is the original wood to this barreled action. That would explain the lack of a scope serial number and H&H S51 stamp on the butt stock and the Zamak butt plate. And perhaps that big yellow “100” rack number painted on the butt stock too. The action does appear to be a BSA 1943 Mk I(T) from the action body markings. But other bits have been used to build up the complete rifle. And somewhere along the line, the scope got separated with the rifle, or, it was one of the scope-less rifles completed by H&H (perhaps the less likely scenario). The one new thing I see on the photos provided on the guns international website is the colour of the mount pads appears way off. I’ve never seen a T with mount pads that colour. Also, the edges of that front pad are very square looking, not rounded like the original. It now makes me suspect the entire scope setup is repro, including the pads. And here is my genuine T, note the rounded edges. Well, it now appears as sold. If nothing else, it looks like a T, and if the claim of a very good condition action and bore is true, then perhaps it will at least be a shooter if not a collector piece. Usable in the CMP Vintage Sniper matches.

mp40bran Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: December 18 2024 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote mp40bran Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: December 20 2024 at 2:03am
	Thank you such much everyone for your wisdom. Wow what an excellent first experience on this board! Stay tuned as I will post a picture of my mint correct T-less!