Strange Trainer's! |
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Online Points: 5586 |
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Posted: October 27 2020 at 1:11pm |
While flicking through the French arms site Naturabuy; I came across 2 bastardised No8 rifles that the sellers seem to think are all original.
Firstly a No8 (or No 8 Parts rifle) marked as an L2A1 converted to .22 The L2A1 is I believe a 1960's light machine gun! Secondly we have an all original No8 trainer fitted with No1MkIII* type wood and butt. Also has a magazine. One wonders whats inside where the trigger system should sit. You'd think they'd read a book or two before trying to sell these bitzer's
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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The L2A1 was a heavy barrel, full auto version of the L1A1 Ess Ell Arr rifle. I'm not sure what that other one is! It seems to be the rear end of a No4 somehow attached to the front end of a No1 then converted to .22 RF! Its Frank N Field! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
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Looking at the photos and I have one question. Did the No8 rifles use No5 receivers?
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Online Points: 5586 |
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yes Goosic. They used both No4 and No5 receivers to build the No8 .22's. I have one of each model.
The first one that is quoted as a L2A1 appears to be a No8 type bolt and barrel; but it should not have a magazine. The No8's have a completely different trigger system; which is adjustable and extends into the magazine well. Normally it has a flat plate cover which is held in by the trigger guard. The wrist markings appear to be a No8. No clue why anyone would engrave it as a L2A1 in .22LR. It makes no sense; an L2A1 would be illegal in France as it's full auto (even if it were .22) Very odd! Maybe they were trying to make a L42A1 .22 and forgot to stamp the 4 I think the second rifle is probably a No8 barrel with No5 type receiver wearing a No1MkIII* dress! Again the magazine is odd. So suspect the trigger is not correct. Looks to be marked as a No8 on the receiver. They are generally lightly marked . The prices are high for a bitsa rebuild. Thats probably around top money for a good No8 here. |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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fantasy bitsers in the best sense of salesmanship , i am certain there are those that will bid on them , but , buy the rifle not the story - or dont
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Online Points: 5586 |
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I sent a message to the guy selling the No8 with the No1MkIII type woodwork. Telling him that it's No1 woodwork.
He suggested it was an early model which made it more interesting! I have since pointed out that they where based on the No4/5 type rifles and only ever had one type of woodwork; so it's not original. Some people will do anything to try and get a few extra quid!
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
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A "gentleman " on eBay has a No1Mk111 magazine for sale. He is asking 300.00 USD for it. It has had the bottom cut off and has been hammered down and welded together so now it is a five round magazine. There is still welding sl*g on the seams and big nasty grind marks all over it. When I messaged him to ask about the why the price was so high, his response was ," it is a prototype! Only one of its kind! Do not attempt to send a lowball offer, I know what I have and what it is worth!"
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Online Points: 5586 |
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You just know that some sucker will end up buying it!
Buyer's really need to do their homework or use reputable retailer's. The guy with the No8 is asking 1430 Euros, that is top money for a good all correct one; but over the top for a bubba |
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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A#1 rule: "Never mind the story, buy the rifle not the tale". |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
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That is the main reason I have resorted to making /converting my Enfields. The price is so out of reach for me. You fine folk who own an original No7/8/9, L39A1 L42A1 or No4Mk1 T make me jealous and envious and I commend you for your endeavors to be able to aquire those fine examples.
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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Double posted (again) - getting good at that.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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ive always hoped to find a decent no8 but given up hope of having it in my lifetime , i have a few great examples of trainers in my possession now and will spend time with those in my waning years for now , life is good
hope you all find yours as life goes on , do not buy the story - only the rifles
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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You have engineering skills 2nd to none and make some great rifles. I have gone another route and like 'all originals' but it has taken many years to get there.
For a UK civilian I have a fair collection of 'live' Lee Enfields (L42, No4T, No7Mk1, No5, No1's, No4's, No2 etc) and a fair assortment of 'accoutrements and accessories'. So far all of this has cost me £50 and a few 1000 hours of buying and selling over 30 years of auctions & ebaying. As each item was sold it was 'reinvested' in more parts. My first buy was a PH5C sight at £50, which I then sold for £100, this progressed until I was buying £800 Lee Enfield Enforcers and selling them into the US and Canada at £2000-£2500 each. I picked up at auction a 'box of Enfield parts' for £100, which included such treasures as original No32 scope mounts which I sold into Australia at £300 each As the funds 'grew' I bought my 'collectibles' and carried on 'dealing'. A lot of luck, being in the right place at the right time & being in a continually increasing market immune to financial crisis was a bonus. As Thomas Jefferson is alleged to have said "I am a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work, the more I have of it." |
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Online Points: 5586 |
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That's a great way to build up a collection Armourer. Every piece is linked to the work put in.
My collection is quite small compared to some; but I'm happy with what I've got. But living in France means having to import some of them. That in it's self takes time; normally around 3 months between purchase and actually receiving the goods due to all the paperwork. Although I have found all of my .22 Enfields here in France. The fact that they are good investments is secondary to the pleasure of owning and shooting them.
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