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Fake or Real??

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MARTINRF View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 06 2024 at 3:06am
...I have added another bayonet to the collection - all with Australian Military District stamps...early Chapman made P'07 with issue stamps...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2023 at 9:37pm
very nice collection 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2023 at 9:31am

...another recent acquisition...an early CHAPMAN marked blade, numbered with the State of Victoria marking on the crossguard and 3MD on the throat edge...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2023 at 3:40am

...here is my latest acquisition - another 1915 Lithgow, with the hooked-quillon intact...it joins a small, but perfectly formed, collection of 1907 bayonets...all have either 1 MD, 2 MD, 3 MD, or pre-M.D., markings showing their service within the Australian military forces...the shape of the quillon differs between British and Australian manufacturing, as does the hand stamping upon the ricasso...(8{
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2022 at 4:08am
Wait until you start shooting the dead branches of the trees with the .303Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 5:29pm
Me too.
The locals are becoming a little concerned with me hacking "zombie mint" out of my yard with it.
Gawd bless em.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Small trivia point.
The "Sirhind tool" was originally issued as an INtrenching tool & later changed to be an ENtrenching tool.
There were 2 versions of it. One (shown) was "plain", the other had a "fake" no4 barrel top & bayonet lugs on the end of the handle, to allow a bayonet to be attached to "probe for mines"!

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/equipment-field-gear/1047040d1486882354t-early-war-pattern-1937-webbing-set-british-made-21-early-british-made-web-equipment-1937-pattern-entrenching-tool-cover-sling.jpg
I have the second version...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 4:41pm
I had an old family friend who served with the NZ division in North Africa in WW2 , he made the point that when under fire or being bombed the most effective way to dig in fast was using your helmet.
He said that unlike most british units the New Zealanders tended to dump useless british army equipment fast and scrounge (or steal where necessary) anything better.  He was a signaler and started out armed with a revolver (only good for throwing at the enemy) then a Thompson SNG (heavy and rattled loudly with the drum mags, also poked you in the back when slung) then used a lee enfield rifle ( meant you didn't stand out as a high value target) and was useful to tie aerial wires to when stuck in the ground with the bayonet fitted) this was because there were very few trees around in North Africa to tie the aerial wires to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 9:08am
Small trivia point.
The "Sirhind tool" was originally issued as an INtrenching tool & later changed to be an ENtrenching tool.
There were 2 versions of it. One (shown) was "plain", the other had a "fake" no4 barrel top & bayonet lugs on the end of the handle, to allow a bayonet to be attached to "probe for mines"!

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/equipment-field-gear/1047040d1486882354t-early-war-pattern-1937-webbing-set-british-made-21-early-british-made-web-equipment-1937-pattern-entrenching-tool-cover-sling.jpg
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 5:22am
Thanks Marco, great insight. I had no idea.  Can you imagine digging fox holes, or worse, trenches with an entrenching tool! I guess it is a labor of necessity when someone is shorting at you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 4:49am
...here is the pattern Australian '08/15 leather equivalent to the web equipment combination...the bayonet was made in '11 by Mole with the (pre-November 1913 Military District adoption) State of Victoria Ordnance Department stamps applied to both the crossguard and the scabbard throat - unusual to find a bayonet snd scabbard that have been together after all that amount of time...(8{





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 4:00am
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I've learnt something today.👍
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2022 at 12:02am
The wooden handle attached to the bayonet has the official nomenclature of "Implement, Entrenching, Patt. '37, Helve Mk I". Originally these were issued pre-WW1 through WW1 for the Pattern 1908 pattern sirhind tool. However, in 1923 these were discontinued.
In 1939, the British decided on the need for an entrenching tool again and the square blade, Linneman style spade was adopted. After a couple of years, the British decided that there was a problem with their "new" style entrenching tools.
In 1941, the spade model was discontinued and the British reintroduced the old, Pattern 1908 Entrenching Tool, but gave it a new nomenclature, the "Implement, Entrenching, Patt. '37". It was called the Pattern 1937, but was actually adopted in 1941. The first of these were issued with a plain style handle, just like the original Pattern 1908 tools. These early wood handles were called the "Helve, Mk I". Not often found complete for some reason, but a cool item.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2022 at 10:40pm
mine is a 1910 mole , 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AussieShooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2022 at 6:30pm
That hookie looks in fantastic condition.  What is the wooden item strapped to the scabbard?  I haven't seen this before.  Congratulations on your collection - I look forward to seeing some more of it over time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MARTINRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2022 at 2:51pm
...the bayonet combination came out of a WW1 British collector friend living up in Bradford, West Yorkshire, after working on him for something over 28 years to release all of his AIF items to me so the deal, a few years ago, had a very long gestation period, indeed...all of the items came to him from various fairs in the Leeds area so I assume this item saw service either in France/Belgium - or even the Dardenelles - but of course I cannot be 100% certain of that...all I know is that very few dealers/collectors, if any, over here get AIF items sent over from Australia - the AIF bits that I come by all seem to originate from sources the UK...(8{
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