Lacquer covered rifles |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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too many of these sites have gone away over the years and all the great data is lost
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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This one maybe? "Compiled
by d**k Culver
This article is being posted in answer to the many requests for advice on how to refinish military rifle stocks. Rather than post one article that is THE method for stock refinishing, this is a set of mini-articles to give you a cross-section of different techniques. All three yield excellent results. I have seen some of the stocks that Walt Kuleck has refinished and they leave little or nothing to be desired... I would be most happy with any of them. The Finisher is in fact a professional military stock refinisher and he can only be described as an artist. His instructions are clear and simple and represent years of trial and error designed to duplicate the finishes of yesteryear on the military products of Springfield, Rock Island, Winchester, HRA and IHC. If you follow his instructions carefully, the results will be superior. My techniques are the result of attempting to duplicate the rifles seen on the firing line and in the barracks prior to and following WWII. In the 50s many of the old timers used to ask me what I was using on the stock. I was most honest and told them I used a hand rubbed linseed oil finish (OK, so I put a little beeswax into it... (Hee, hee, hee...) rubbed it down with a towel, and polished it off with a silicone cloth). I invite anyone with another way of refinishing military rifle stocks to send them in to the web mistress and we will add your method to the list! Best regards and good luck, d**k Culver Method One: HOW TO REFINISH A MILITARY GUN STOCK, BY "T.HE F.INISHER"
You will now attempt to steam these out.
The steaming process may have gotten rid of some of the dents. For those it didn't.
If there are any dents too deep for sandpaper, it is now time to fill them in with a mixture of Brownell's Acraglas. Mix this up like the instructions, and mix some of the sawdust from sanding with the Acraglas. This will make the Acraglas look as close to the wood as possible, but it won't be a perfect match. When finished the Acraglas won't really stand out, but it won't be invisible, either. When the Acraglas is dry, sand the whole stock with 150 grit sandpaper. You may have to spread the Acraglasing out over several days, as there might be dents all over the stock, which would require you to sit it a certain way so the Acraglas doesn't run, let dry, sit another way for more Acraglas, etc. Until all the dents are filled. When sanding the stock, there may be dents that are too shallow for the acraglas to stick in, and it will sand out. Then the dent may be too deep to sand out with sandpaper. When this happens, leave the dent, and live with it. This would not have prevented the japs from falling over when hit with the bullets from the rifle. Go to the Tandy leather craft store, and get some Fiebing's dark brown leather dye. Get the alcohol based, not the water based. This is the stain to use.
If they match go on to the next step. If they don't match, one is lighter than the other. Here is where the artistry comes in. If the stock is too light:
The process is now complete, and the stock should look better than when it began. Method Two: M1 STOCK REFINISHING By Walt Kuleck As published on the Fulton Armory Website with permission of Walt. This can also be seen on the Fulton Armory Site along with some pictures of the results. QUESTION: My CMP M1 stock has a few dings and is very sticky. What can I do to clean the stock? Do I sand it? What do I put on it after all is said and done? ANSWER: : The M1 Rifle was originally manufactured with one of two finishes: linseed oil or China/Tung oil. Towards the end of WWII the linseed oil was supplanted by Tung Oil, a finish that was used, I believe, during '50's production. Refinished stocks were, however, generally refinished with linseed oil. In all cases the finished stock was simply dipped in a tank of linseed or Tung oil for a few minutes and then allowed to drain dry. Stocks that come from the CMP, whether as parts or on a rifle, are often coated with that sticky goo called cosmoline. Even those that are not are likely to be oil soaked or stained in one area or another. Here's what I do. To strip the old finish and remove oil & dirt, I use Easy-Off Oven Cleaner (the Heavy Duty variety). Spray it on, let it soak for 10-15 minutes, and then rinse off with very warm water while scrubbing with a Scotch-Brite pad. Usually one go with the Easy Off is sufficient, but I have had to repeat the treatment up to twice more. When the stock has dried I follow up with a coat or two of Minwax Natural Stain (unless I'm getting creative) and finish with two or three coats of Minwax Tung Oil finish. Minwax Natural is clear; it simply seals the grain. Except in extreme cases the strongest abrasive I will use is 00 steel wool. Usually a mild going-over with 00 before and after the first coat of Natural stain, then 0000 thereafter. I use my thumb to cover the cartouche and Proof stamp, in turn, to assure I don't further degrade it. I repeat the process with the Tung Oil; after buffing damp (10-15 minutes after application) with a balled-up nylon stocking or pantyhose (really!), allow drying for 24 hours then buff with 0000 steel wool. After the second coat, buff with 0000. After the last coat, buff with the stocking. The result looks military but is more durable. I've done more than a dozen M1 and M14 stocks this way, with total satisfaction. If you're able to attend the OGCA shows (e-mail me if you wish to be sponsored as a guest), stop by the GCA booth. I generally have my CMP rifle and my wife's CMP rifle there, refinished with this method. This method works for me! But for God's sake, don't sand it!!!! -- Walt Kuleck Method Three: Refurbishing Old M1 (or M1903) Stocks By d**k Culver There are a couple of ground rules here:
NOTE: NOTE: As far as I know, all stocks finished by Springfield (and others - Win, HRA and IHC) after 1941, were finished with Tung Oil including the post WWII production rifles (including the M14). It would be hard to pin an exact date on the total changeover to the new finish, but surely by early 1942, all stocks were Armory finished utilizing the TUNG Oil process. It was intended that all FIELD maintenance of rifle stocks would continue to be linseed oil (Boiled Linseed was the favorite since it contained a drying agent, and was much more practical for the individual soldier) My personal advice is to make the stock finish fit the era and wear of the (individual) M1, and add a little character to the amount of remaining metal finish, rather than try to make a piece of furniture out of the stock. Doing too good a job is much like a gal who dyes her hair jet black when she’s in her ‘70s... It MAY be her natural color, but... If you are doing a total restoration, then it’s OK to pull out the stops. If you want a finish that rivals the most meticulous hand rubbed finish applied by the professional soldier (or Marine) in the days prior to WWII, you might want to try the following: This is a finish I got from an old-timer at Perry back in the mid-50s who appeared to be old enough to have used it on his issue Trapdoor Springfield in the Indian Fighting Days. I went home and tried it and am still using it to this day:
This method works equally well with any military stock and is a really practical finish for your hunting or "head for the hills" stock. NOTE: Beeswax can usually be found in shoe and saddle makers shops (they wax their sewing machine thread with it), leather stores (Tandy, The Leather Factory, etc.) or even from beekeepers... You ain’t gonna’ need a bunch. I’m still using a block I found 25 years ago. Beeswax can usually be found in shoe and saddle makers shops (they wax their sewing machine thread with it), leather stores (Tandy, The Leather Factory, etc.) or even from beekeepers... You ain’t gonna’ need a bunch. I’m still using a block I found 25 years ago.
THE RATIONALE FOR LINSEED OIL VS. TUNG OIL By d**k Culver The Tung Oil vs. Linseed Oil finish has been raging for years. If I were personally gonna’ advise anyone on which to use, I would have to know several things:
All of these questions enter into the final equation. I can give you the history, and rationale for the various finishes and you can make up your own mind. I have accumulated various finishing processes from some experts (or very experience folks) and will be posting the methods on the "Articles Page" shortly. In the meantime, here’s how it went in service as opposed to the cold pages of a history book. For many years, certainly up to the early part of WWII, Linseed Oil was the ordnance preference. Why? Availability, lack of synthetics (for finishes), tradition AND (thank goodness) a lack of available satisfactory plastic stock materials made linseed the favorite Armory Finish.. Linseed Oil is easily obtainable, is friendly to wood (keeps it from drying out, and if you are a masochist, produces a "classic finish" on military rifles. During the time between WWI and WWII, the troops often had more time on their hands than the brass thought was good for them. My Dad, who spent a number of years as an enlisted Marine during and after WWI, often told me of being issued two pair of shoes (high tops, in the custom of the time). During their off duty hours, they were required to "spit shine" the SOLES of the pair of shoes they were not wearing (to make sure they had something to keep them occupied). I’m sure that the continued rubbing of linseed oil into the stocks of their M1903s fell into the same category. Sure, it was good for the stock (or at least didn’t injure it), but best of all (from a standpoint of the NCOs and Officers), it kept idle hands out of mischief! From a standpoint of tradition, the new stocks of the M1903s and the early M1s were dipped into a tank of linseed oil (no doubt boiled linseed oil after they figured out the advantages of a more rapidly drying finish) – Boiled linseed oil was the only thing my Dad would use on our personal ’03. The Armory linseed "dip" was designed to preserve the stocks and to keep them from drying out prior to being issued. I have an August 1941 (Lend-Lease) gun with what would appear to have the original Armory "dipped" linseed oil finish. No effort was expended to highly polish the stock, and I rather imagine that the rifle sat in the rack in England for the duration of the war. I would say that the linseed dipping did its job well, although no one can say the stock is "pretty"... just has the appearance of being dipped in linseed oil in a time "long, long ago", in a galaxy "far, far away" – but it amounts to a time capsule for early stock finishes, not degraded by some GI attempting to make points with his NCO or inspecting officer. Supplies of linseed oil began to show signs of getting scarce during the early part of WWII, and in order to shade their bet and perhaps impart a more waterproof finish to newly manufactured M1s, Army Ordnance decided to go to the Chinawood or Tung Oil finish (also known as Japanese Dryer). It had the advantage of being as easy to apply as linseed in the Armory environment, and could be applied in the same manner (dipping the entire stock in Tung Oil) for a few minutes). The result was relatively waterproof, and durable... It was not chosen for its spiffy appearance, but it did the job well. The Tung Oil finish was the official finish for the M1 (and later the M14) from 1942 until the end of production of the M14. Tung Oil is made from the "nut" of the Tung Tree, and for many years when driving along the lower parts of Mississippi, Florida and Alabama, I remember seeing large groves of Tung Trees with signs on the fence that indicated that the Tung Groves were maintained as a " War Reserve" for National Defense" in time of War (I forget the exact wording, but that was the gist of the signs). I haven’t seen ‘em for years, but I suppose the need for Tung Oil and Tung Groves has gone the way of the "Do-Do Bird", what with the Matty Mattel Special Mouse Gun. The Tung Oil finish was designed to put a weather proof finish on the "just finished" rifles and was NOT meant to be used on a continuing basis as the Linseed Oil had been in times gone by. It was a "base coat" and since the Government wasn’t planning on issuing little bottles of Tung Oil to the troops, the usage of linseed oil was specified for long term "troop maintenance. Why? Well it didn’t hurt anything and kept "idle hands" busy. Linseed, judiciously applied, DOES make an attractive finish, and serves to protect the weapon. Don’t forget, tradition also played an important part in the equation, and traditions die hard – "By Gawd, I used linseed on MY ’03, and you clowns are gonna’ use it on your M1s... Good stuff, and the Ordnance People KNOW what they’re doing!" The nice thing was, that it served its purpose. The posting indicating "every hour for a day", "every day for a week", "every week for a month", "every month for a year", and "every year for the rest of your life" was an oft quoted truism passed down from generation to generation... It could and did produce a very nice finish if you kept with it. The tradition and indeed institution of the professional private died out after WWII however, and the rifle no longer had an owner that would keep and nurture him (her?) for the rest of its service life! As a result, very few M1s ever achieved the marvelous finish often seen on pre-WWII M1903s. Speaking from personal experience, many "after market" finishes were used on M1 stocks, primarily to garner favor with inspecting officers and NCOs. Primo among such finishes that started appearing in the early 1950s were such as, "Linspeed Oil", and "Tru-Oil". Both gave a finish that can politely be described as artificial, and much to the delight of the troops, VERY SHINY! Much like a she!!ac or varnish finish. I personally always had an extra set of wood for my M1 with such a finish set up JUST for inspections! My "field stock" was a bit rougher... heh, heh, heh... The inspecting officer in one unit I served in referred to my stock as a "piece of furniture"... If I had only known what I was doing to future collectors?! Sigh.... Needless to say, no attention was paid to the cartouches or circle Ps, as a matter of fact, these were usually removed to improve the finish and appearance... Sometimes units would issue (local) orders that prohibited the use of anything but linseed oil (not because of any ordnance objection, but because it made "stock maintenance" too easy for the troops – much like the appearance of "Corfam Shoes" were thought to be the bane of the traditional "spit shine" and no longer required any effort on the part of the individual Soldier or Marine). As a result, we would check out either Tru-Oil and Linspeed, and see which indicated a preponderance of linseed as its main ingredient and apply that one (I think Linspeed usually got the nod), lying in our teeth when asked if "THAT" was a "linseed finish"?... Well, it WAS, sorta’ anyway... With a "Linspeeded Stock" I once "bubbled" the shiny finish and charred the inside of the hand guards during a "squad in the assault problem" while laying down a base of fire for the advancing members of the squad. It looked great in garrison, but was not a terribly practical field finish. When building Match Conditioned M14s at MTU Quantico, the armorers usually treated the INSIDE (and sometimes the outside) of the stocks with a polyurethane finish to make it weatherproof and prevent the possibility of warping during sudden rain squalls.. It wasn’t usually done to be pretty, and the finish often left something to be desired from the standpoint of a connoisseur, but it served its purpose nicely. So you see, it wasn’t quite as cut and dried as the collectors think, nor did it always go as the manuals indicated that it should. Stock finishes were often a personal and subjective thing. In answer to my original criteria, I would use the following guidelines:
I have a personal favorite that combines the traditional hand rubbed linseed oil finish with the weather proof qualities of the polymer finishes and looks like you spent your whole life working on the stock. It consists of a mixture of 1/3rd Linseed Oil, 1/3rd Turpentine (acting as a solvent), and 1/3rd Beeswax, gently melted together over something other than an open flame (an old-time radiator used to work well). When it is well melted, it should be stirred and left to congeal... It turns into a paste that makes a great (military style) finish that looks like it took a million years to apply. Repairs easily, even in the field. Got this one from an old gent at Perry back in the Mid-50s who looked like he had personally used it on his issued Trapdoor Springfield... I went home and tried it, and have been using it every since. As I said before, I will be posting the various finishing techniques shortly, and I will cover the exact method of applying my linseed/beeswax/turpentine finish in detail in the article. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Grizzly ‘76
Groupie Joined: September 25 2021 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
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Shamu ,
Thanks for the info . That is one of the articles I read and studied prior to attempting a refinish/ correct restoration of an old GI wood stock set . I did not fill in any missing wood or sand out any dents too deep to steam out . I just took it as some of the historical journey the old rifle has been on .
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bubba ho tep
Senior Member Joined: June 19 2017 Location: KY abode Status: Offline Points: 169 |
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Marco ; I view this as - going for a refinish or trying to keep what is left of the original finish. If the wood has been sanded hard or otherwise stripped before a bubba lacquered or polyurethaned it to death your method to me is quite acceptable. It will always look monkeyed with but not as ugly as the pimp shine it had.
If markings under lacquer are still clear and or sharp and maybe if lucky a modicum of roginal finish/color left under that bubba finish....then the least aggressive least chemical solution is the best. I do not use acetone or ANY kind of stringent chemical on wood. Acetone/lacquer thinner/xylene all dry wood out bad and as well leech any original color from the wood. I have taken extremely oil logged stocks and wrapped them in paper towels and left them in a warm environment to help leech out those old oils. But I never attempt a chemical clean or bath as it leech out colors and destroys any origina patina to the wood that may be left. A good example : 20 years ago a buddy got a flat gorgeous Standard Modell mauser - bolt mismatch on the cheap. I really liked that rifle and asked my buddy to let it come to me if he decided to part with it. The original deep orange luster mauser applied was just absolutely beautiful on that walnut stock. About impossible to duplicate and or make any more beautiful. In short order it was offered to me...and when I picked it up from him I had to decline taking it. He goobered it by rubbing it down with acetone "to clean the stock you know". It went from a beautiful unparalleled prewar mauser finish to a blecched orangey bubbafied overhandedness I could not look at. I have seen this so often in "collector and dealer" circles as some try to clean up and make pretty their items..... when they should have refrained from buggering up aged original finishes. Chemical and or soapy water "cleaning" of old wood is heresy to me , whether it be on guns , knives or old tools. Removing goober finishes from old I personally feel needs to be approached with efforts that are directed at minimal impact to what is left underneath the goober finish. To each his own. I hate to ,but will pass over a matching old military rifle if the wood has been given the pimp treatment and or overly cleaned .
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bubba ho tep
Senior Member Joined: June 19 2017 Location: KY abode Status: Offline Points: 169 |
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I'm quite familiar with Culver and the finisher. Anyhow if you have a beat the crap stock go for it. Otherwise such a method fugs it up for eternity. Original finishes should not be monkeyed with or chemically cleaned ( soap or spirits) .
I have had old mausers , trapdoors , jap rifles etc that had paint splattered all over them from being in a corner or whatever while painting was done ions ago. I painstakingly have removed such with a dental tool a wee bit at a time. Resorting to quick fixer upper chemicals and or complete refinishing would have fubar'd those stocks. Have had rifles that came of bar walls , fireplaces and smokey club houses that were absolutely filthy with airborne smoke/cooking agents and dust -grime from many years of exposure. A chemical or soapy scrub would have flat destroyed the wood . I'm a minimalist in these regards if you could not tell. Taking old original wood and 'refinishing' to like new or alleged 'period' look is abhorrent to me. If as I always say the wood has already been badly sanded and or badly overhandedly refinished all bets are off and make the best of it however you please.
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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Here's a few photos of my renovation of the L39A1 wood set. It was lacquered. I refinished it using boiled linseed oil.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Marco1010
Senior Member Joined: February 04 2020 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 400 |
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Its always the $100 question... leave it as is and just give it an oil, or a deep dive into removing the old finishes. The method I described is best suited to restorations where the woodwork has distinctly different shades, I am having to match to new repro wood, or its in real bad shape.
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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there ya go
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Coastie
Newbie Joined: January 17 2022 Location: Lewes, DE Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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I have used Citrus strip paint remover with great result. I even used it on a high ranking nazi sword scabbard. Looked like it was blued but read that it was painted. I didn't believe that a nazi officer worth his kraut would have a painted scabbard. I put the citrus strip on it and after a few hours it bubbled up and the paint came right off with a plastic putty knife. Also used it as a first on refurbishing old surplus rifles; worked great as far as removing old stuff before sanding.
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Phil the Coastie
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