Alternative 7.62 brass |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | ||
450 Fuller
Groupie Joined: June 07 2022 Location: New Mexico-AK-A Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: November 03 2022 at 3:55pm |
|
NOT RECOMMENDED-DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME- OFFICE- OR RANGE
Under the "what if" heading, should 7.62 or 308 WCF brass suddenly disappear, or become unavailable. With reduced, careful fire-forming and loading procedures, there are options. There are at least 3 or more calibers based on the .308 WCF case. Those familiar with MAJ George Nonte, understand what can be SAFELY done in an emergency. I have successfully produced safe results in a 7.62 Ishapore SMLE. Thank you, MAJ Nonte. |
||
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato
Socialism-The equal sharing of misery-Churchill MACVSOG-5th Special Forces Gp |
||
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Would you be so kind as to expound on this topic for those of us not familiar with MAJ George Nonte in regards to the alternatives should actual 7.62mm/.308 cases become unavailable?
|
||
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I’d think that the 7.62/.308 case would be the second last case to become unavailable. The last being the 5.56/.223 case. So, you probably don’t have to worry about this.
|
||
A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
that was my opinion as well - those and 9mm luger , besides ive got enough for my lifetime , my kids better learn to reload all the saved brass
|
||
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I got spooked when I couldn't find any .243W brass.
I had 5000 rounds of Lake City 7.62 brass that are now resized to .243W. I'm good to go...
|
||
450 Fuller
Groupie Joined: June 07 2022 Location: New Mexico-AK-A Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Goosic:
You are on track. Nonte's book goes into detail. I chose not to expound on this as head space, rifle condition, and selected brass as well as individual subjective loading practices are all beyond control. I think this is an area for advanced handloaders. It worked for me as I tend to be cautious. A pattern 1917, a pre-64 Model 70 might be a better test bed for increased pressures. An Enfield SMLE like a converted 7.62 Ishapore is an individual rifle, and as such there are those that think even the use of 308 WCF brass is treading on thinner ice. These are older rifles. The best bet is probably to stick with strong surplus US-made 7.62 brass. I tend to treat the SMLE Enfield rifles somewhat like the Krag-Jorgensen rifles in 30 Army (30-40 Krag). Reduced pressures along with avoiding heavier bullets. The 1895 Winchester could actually handle heavier bullets better than the Krag, as the Krag had only one locking lug |
||
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato
Socialism-The equal sharing of misery-Churchill MACVSOG-5th Special Forces Gp |
||
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I do prefer 7.62 brass to commercial .308 in my No. 4 DCRA conversion, but I also use Lapua .308, it is high quality and on the heavy side for commercial brass, headspace is well under .308 SAMMI No-Go.
You have control of pressures by reloading, although some things are not fully quantified reloading manuals. Pressures can be affected by substituting 7.62 for .308 brass, magnum primers for standard primers, one bullet type for another. This is where you should exercise caution and always err on the side of reduced charges. Especially if you intend on shooting a lot of your custom made load. |
||
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just a FYI here 450 Fuller. The Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles are NOT and NEVER were conversions. They are ther own entities and used a different grade of steel during the forging process. They were also proofed to handle and tolerate all offerings of 7.62x51 NATO ammunition by the Birmingham Proof Master and under strict guidance from the British Ministry of Defense prior to and during assembly.
|
||
The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That is very true - as 7.62 has a thicker case the internal volume is lower than a 308 case, the same weight of powder in a smaller space has quite an effect on burn and pressures.
|
||
450 Fuller
Groupie Joined: June 07 2022 Location: New Mexico-AK-A Status: Offline Points: 40 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
You are correct, of course as to the strength and origin steel as to
the Ishapore 2A and 2A1. As much as I like 7.62 U.S. brass, I do look for some available match brass as small quantities have no primer crimp. AMC is the major US Army Command over the small arms ammo plants. RCBS makes a primer pocket swage which removes the crimp. |
||
Only the dead have seen the end of war-Plato
Socialism-The equal sharing of misery-Churchill MACVSOG-5th Special Forces Gp |
||
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I like you will not expound on this but suffice it to say that, Lake City 7.62x51mm LR and Match brass is readily available for reloading through www.diamondkbrass.com
|
||
Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Most current reloading manuals have two separate listings for the .308W and 7.62mm Military and also describe the use of commercial and military brass respectively but, if you are just out to kill paper for the day, load to the starting charge weight and forego any worries...
|
||
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
Just compensate for the decreased internal volume by down loading (2~3 Gr) & then working back up to the same velocity. I've found with several makes & lots of cases the real difference is about 1.5~ 2.0 Gr of IMR 3031 or IMR 4895. This assumes you're using a max load. If you load is Middle of the road you'd do the same but just for the velocity change.
|
||
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
||
Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
450 Fuller, I was just wondering if it was one of your modified cases or a standard case that had the over pressure; which unfortunately wrecked your Ishapore?
|
||
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
|
||
Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
That's a good point its awfully easy to mix one form such a similar batch.
|
||
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
|
||
britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|
I’m afraid it remains a mystery of what went wrong.
Of all the things that can cause this magnitude of overpressure, I’d think cases are pretty low on the list. |
||
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |