Tell me it’s not the shooter! |
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Got my new barrel from the CMP for the M1 today, I’m excited. I know this is a Enfield forum, but 20 years of living in the US has taken a toll and I was bitten by the M1 bug a few years back. Hopefully, the new barrel will turn my M1 a shooter. A few very experienced armorers have told me “the barrel is the gun”. I’m going to find out if that is true...
The M1 is now stripped and I’m about to remove the barrel and install a new one. Three years of frustration with this rifle will hopefully come to an end. If this fails, I’m going to enjoy shooting my trusty No. 4, this rifle can set a new CMP record in the Vintage Military Match with a bit more shooter practice... |
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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The new barrel is on the M1 and headspaced right at the minimum. The Manson pull thru reamer worked very nice. Now, I don’t expect the M1 will ever out shoot the No. 4 (as if there ever was a question on which rifle has superior accuracy?), but hopefully this will resolve those pesky fliers that cost me way too many points in the JCG matches. I’ll know soon enough if it worked....
Old barrel off and new one in the wrapper: |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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im really happy to see this thread - once in a while its fun to see what i once had and gave up for my love of british rifles and handguns , this is my second area of interest even if i gave the long guns up years ago , i did not give up my handguns - one day maybe ill take new photos , for now lost in photobucket
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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I’m Canadian by birth, lived there for 36 years, served in the army reserve and regular force forces. My dad was a British rifle collector, so my first love was British rifles (the origin of my screen name). I’m now a proud US citizen, lived here for over 20 years now. I was bitten by the M1 and 1903 Springfield bug about 5 years ago. I’ve also got a 1903A4 clone (an A3 with repro M82 scope) which has a Criterion barrel that generally shoots good once I solved a loose front scope ring on the mount base. I’m still working with it to shoot in the CMP Vintage Sniper Match.
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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britrifles:
I had an M-1. Cant say as I liked it much..really didn't hold my interest.(But it sure held my thumb!! TWICE!! . (It was designed by a French-Canadian, btw), I also had a 1903 Springfield in real "cherry" shape. I liked it even less! Just about took my shoulder off every time I shot it! . Sold the '03 to a fellow re-enactor Stateside for what I had into it, & the garand I sold back to the U.S. Army (believe it or not). Methinks I'm happier with my Enfields. (Just got my Longranch!! |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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Goosic
Senior Member Joined: September 12 2017 Location: Phoenix Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8792 |
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I'll trade you my Maltby for your Long Branch?
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Hoadie, I have not gotten “M1 thumb” yet, and I’d argue that if you follow the correct loading procedure, you can’t. You do have to be cautious in closing the bolt on an empty chamber, but correct procedure has always worked for me.
The M1 was certainly a well designed rifle, in my humble opinion. It cost about five times that of the No. 4 Enfield. I think it’s tougher to argue the merits of the M1 over the No. 4 when considering the cost. Having shot both rifles a lot, I do prefer the rear sight on the M1 over the No. 4, I also find the M1 rifle more comfortable to shoot due to the shape of the stock at the pistol grip. If I’m not careful, I’ll be kicked off the forum! So, I will say that in my shooting experience, the No.4 is more accurate, that is certainly true comparing my LB No. 4 Mk I*/3 to my two SA M1s on the 100, 200, 300 and 600 yard ranges. But, how the average rifle compared i do not know. There are accuracy standards for both rifles, so this may give some indication. I think we can conclude that both rifles were very effective in what they were designed for. |
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hoadie
Moderator Group Joined: March 16 2006 Location: Niagara/Canada Status: Offline Points: 9003 |
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Effective - yes.
Different thesis. M-1 semi auto. Given that the average soldier was scared & wouldn't actually shoot at his opponent - but over his head (still true today), it was great at suppressing the opponent. Enfield - bigger magazine - slower rate of fire, less use/waste of ammo & in an actual firefight - more accurate.(IF the user doesn't fire over their heads). Had a conversation bout this last week @ Legion. Someone asked Harry Fox if he actually shot someone.. he said he shot "toward someone" but wasn't sure if he hit him cuz he was scared. |
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Loose wimmen tightened here
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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i can relate to that , but when they are trying to kill you , maybe it would be best to shoot as taught - center mass and move on ,
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Yes, it’s surprising how seldom aimed fire was actually used in combat during WWII and thru to Vietnam. Even more surprising how many thousands of rounds were expended for one hit on the enemy. There are several reasons for this as you stated and these realities contributed to the adoption of the M16. Snipers did just the opposite of course.
There has been a change in military thinking since Vietnam and the effectiveness of aimed and accurate fire has been relearned. That’s how small teams of special ops are able to destroy much larger units. Spraying lead all around rarely kills the enemy. I do love the simplicity of the LE, the reliability, ease of topping off the magazine, and it’s accuracy. A well trained soldier could deliver a high rate of accurate fire. But, in WW II, there was very little training, and these rifles were seldom used in this manner. If you were defending your home country from an invader, you would have to quickly learn not to waste ammunition shooting Into the sky and use aimed and accurate fire. |
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Stanforth
Senior Member Joined: January 08 2017 Location: Oxford England Status: Offline Points: 773 |
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I recently read, in a book that I borrowed so no longer have it to quote from directly, that the kill rate in Vietnam was.
Troops with the issue Armalite rifle.. = 50,000 rounds per kill. Snipers = 1.3 rounds per kill. If my memory serves.. This was on a board at the U.SW. Sniper school. I now wait to be corrected.
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Life.. a sexually transmitted condition that is invariably fatal.
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Online Points: 17607 |
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I think it was actually even higher than that. Some one shot one kills were two-fers & because of that I remember it being 1.3 per round when they did the tally.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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Broke in the new Criterion barrel on he M1 today. There’s no doubt that was the problem with this M1. The vertical stringing is gone. I followed the barrel break in procedure of cleaning after every shot for 10 rounds, then clean after every 3 shots for another 15 rounds. It paid off, after shooting 80 rounds today, there was hardly any copper fouling in the bore, clean up was quick and easy. I’m using Boretech Eliminator. The old barrel fouled badly and took 30 or more patches to remove the copper after 80 to 120 rounds.
I couldn’t quite get all 10 rounds within the 10 ring at 200 yds on the bench, had one flier into the 9 ring after my break in procedure was complete giving a center to center spread of 3.3 MOA, target pic below. I shot a few Prone slow groups on the SR target at 200 yds, a 96-2x and 97-4x. I’m hoping it will improve a bit as things settle down from the rebuild and the new barrel improves with more shooting. I’m still getting a slight shift of the MPI between single shot SLED and clips, 1 MOA up and 1 MOA right, but I can deal with that. Overall, I’m quite pleased with the results, a drastic improvement! I should have done this sooner! |
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A square 10
Special Member Donating Member Joined: December 12 2006 Location: MN , USA Status: Offline Points: 14452 |
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your love of american rifles is not lost on me at all , once upon a time , very long ago i had a decent collection of american rifles -
the 1888 trapdoor , an M1892 krag , an M1896 krag , an M1898 krag , an M1899 krag carbine , an M 1903 rock island , an M1903A1 springfield , an M1903mod remington , an M1903A3 smith corona and an M1903A4gery remington - it became a 22 cal with a conversion kit that made it safe to shoot , a remington M1917 , a winchester M1917 , multiple eddystone M1917s , a national postal meter M1 carbine , a winchester M1 rifle , all went to good collector homes and i see some from time to time and remember , i still have my winchester winder musket trainer and my m1922 M2 trainer . and i still have my civilian M14 type as well as my M16A1 retro , the latter shoots 22s with a conversion these days , and some modern civilian versions of the M16A3 and carbine , i love my american rifles even those that are gone , i still have all of my handguns from the Colt 1892 to beretta - working on my sig320 [should have it this year] i do have the 226 , a couple of the trials and a couple that were SF issue that were not adopted formally like the S&W M39 , as well as the repro 1851-58-60-73 that are placeholders for now , i think i will have a flintlock soon , ill not be spending a lot of time but always looking for originals of these at a fair price , i have not lost me interest in US arms , ive just found that commonwealth were more interesting to collect and discuss - even if on limited forums these days , do not feel alone here as i know there are a bunch here that have interest in US arms as well as our commonwealth
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britrifles
Senior Member Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Atlanta, GA Status: Offline Points: 6539 |
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That’s an impressive collection A Square! A M1917 is high on my list to add to my modest collection. If anyone has a good shooting 1917 they want to sell let me know. As is a 1903A3. I do have a 1884 Trapdoor, but not done much shooting with it yet, I’m afraid the muzzle is too worn for accurate shooting.
I’m not as interested in collecting as I am in shooting military service rifles. The only modern rifle I have is a AR-15, and it shoots very well, but I’ve spent most of my available shooting time with the M1, No. 4 (.303 and 7.62), 03A4 and Martini Henry. And guess which of these shot the best? For those of you who said the barrel was bad on this M1, you were right! |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Online Points: 17607 |
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Much better!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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