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Placed my sarco order. Now my questions start.

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Rob3Bruce View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 16 2018 at 3:37pm
Greetings, gentlemen! (And ladies, if there are any)

As the subject line says, I've placed an order with Sarco, inc. for a barreled reciver for what should be a 2A Ishapore reciever. There is a thread around here from a couple of months back where I asked for your knowledge and opinion on the company. I finally bit the bullet (can't decide if that pun is intended) and ordered. Now I have questions that are occurring to me.

1. How long would it take for them to ship to the Houston area, including time over there to get the shipment out?

2. What is the easiest way to get a properly headspaced bolt? I'm thinking I'll buy a complete bolt assembly and a set of headspace gauges, then see if the bolt head is too long or too short. Too long: call a good gunsmith. Too short: see if Sarco can find one long enough in stock.

3. Is there any good option for a scope for a No1 Mk3 that doesn't require any/ much alteration to the gun metal? I'm not looking for crazy magnification, just an option for glass.

Thanks for your help. I look forward to reporting on the progress and quality of my rifle. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2018 at 5:42pm
you will get some great answers , i will suggest that the wait ois part pof the journey , do not rush things too much , 

mounting the scope will be addressed by those that have done so successfully and you will appreciate the input , i need one these days past 75 yds .....OK , past 50 yds , i appreciate that you are approaching it without altering the original rifle , 
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Rob3Bruce View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob3Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2018 at 6:37pm
Doing my best, A Square. I just happened to find a complete set of furniture on gun broker that is sitting at about $50 right now. I'm hoping the price on that doesn't go to high. I'm only 30, but I have great respect and admiration for all of the old military surplus guns.

R3B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42rocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2018 at 6:55pm
Good Luck with the project. Sarco is normally good folks. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 6:18am
The bolt head is the method for adjusting headspace.
There  are 3 things you need to  match up for a good, safe action.

1: Bolt head length. Get a long one (unlike the No4 which comes with numbered bolt heads the No1 actions, including the Indian ones all came in "long" & were ground down to fit individual bolts & actions.)

2: Thread over-clocking. The bolt head should stop with less than 15° of over turn measured at the long rib.

3: Locking lug engagement. Both lugs should bear equally. This is done by marking the lugs & stoning them for the desired effect.

This should be done before any headspacing as it may change the headspace.

Wherever you get your gauges make sure they are correct, there are 2 "standards" & one (SAAMI) is considered incorrect you actually need the following dimensions, no matter what the gauge is called.

GO = 0.064"    NO-GO = 0.067"    FIELD = 0.074".

Unfortunately the best known maker (Okie Gauges) was a one man band & he passed away so its a bit of a project currently.


Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 10:47am
When you are checking the fit of the bolt recoil lugs to the receiver; you may need to adjust one side of the bolt to ensure equal contact on both sides. This is essential for proper safe function and accuracy.
It's not actually that difficult; but you do need to take it carefully to avoid removing too much material.
It may only take 0,001" to get it right (or wrong!)
I fitted a new bolt to my No1MkIII*; so here is how I did it.
Here's the basic kit you need: Prussian blue paste, Fine jewelers stone (Arkansas stone), Magnifying glass, Piece of beer can, a soft (aluminium) jawed vice.


The blue will show up the contact patch on the bolt; it will not be the whole lug; probably not even half. What you need is equal contact of a reasonable size. As you can see here, the left side had very little contact; so require slight stoning of the right-hand side to even it up.


Use the beer can to protect the bolt shaft when stoning the lug.

 
I would re-check with the blue after every couple of strokes of the stone at the beginning; to ensure getting it right first time. It's not a quick job; but it is a very important one!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 10:56am
Nice illustrations, thanks.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob3Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 11:38am
Much appreciated Shamu and Zed. I am pretty familiar with Prussian blue. This project seems to be getting more fun (and complicated) by the day. 

Shamu, my headspacing is going to be a little more fun. The Ishapore 2A is chambered in 7.62X51 so I'll be getting the Forster products unless anyone can suggest better. I might get a quote on getting a smith to headspace it. Mostly to save myself the trouble. The bolt lugs seem very doable. If the bolt assembly is the first thing I get and I try to fit it without any other parts it won't effect anything, right? Knowing my luck and history with these sorts of things I'll get the bolt assembly fitting perfectly and then complete the rest of the rifle only to find this piece pushes on that etc. resulting in the fit being different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 1:17pm
Some good advice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 2:11pm
Well at least finding the gauge will be easier in 7.62!
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Yes, get a complete bolt & head. Who knows, it may be "the perfect one"!
Even if it isn't you still need one to apply pressure to the lugs to check engagement anyway!
Hug
If it isn't you can use it as a dummy to find the length you do want.
Assuming it clocks well you're 1/3rd of the way there!

Next lap the lugs for good & equal contact, then chamber a dummy round (or your "FIELD" gauge"). If the bolt won't close, stone down the bolt head's front face till it ALMOST closes.
If it does close slip a feeler gauge up through the magazine well till it, plus the bolt & head & FIELD gauge do not close. Now add the feeler gauge thickness to the 0.074" for the gauge & that's the headspace (& so bolt head length) you need. Then its simple math to find out how many thou more or less than your existing head you need.
(Armorers were lucky they had bucketfuls of bolt heads & just kept swapping till they got a "good 'un"!)
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42rocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 17 2018 at 6:28pm
Thank you for sharing this info. 
 
Later 42rocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 4:13am


(Next lap the lugs for good & equal contact, then chamber a dummy round (or your "FIELD" gauge"). If the bolt won't close, stone down the bolt head's front face till it ALMOST closes.)

Shamu, I'm a bit confused by your explanation .You don't want the bolt to close on the field gauge as it is the largest allowable headspace; so if it doesn't close that is good. 
You would only adjust the bolt head face if it does not close on the smallest "No Go" gauge which is 0,064" I believe. 

0.064 NO-GO = bolt should close.
0.068 GO = Bolt should not close on brand new production rifle at factory. But OK for used rifle.
0,074" Field = Bolt should not close on the field, longer bolt head required if it does.



I replaced my bolt because it was just at the "Field" limit of 0,074". The new (unissued) bolt body was 0,007" longer than the original. I had to remove around 0,001 or 0,002" from the lug to get the equal contact. Headspace is now about 0,068"

Obviously these figures are for the rimmed .303 round. For the 7.62 NATO round it will be different!
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 6:32am
Sorry, I wasn't clear.  I meant that if the headspace starts out way too tight you can stone down the head till it is closer to closing, but does NOT actually close fully.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob3Bruce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 9:40am
So all I need for headspace gauges is GO and Field, right? As long as the bolt closes on GO and not on Field I'm fine. Makes sense to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 12:11pm
Yes that's about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 18 2018 at 2:57pm
Pretty much.
In the U.K. it was just 2.
"Too short" & "Too long"
Its very unlikely you will have a too short, so You could argue for a "FIELD" only.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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