JJ&Co JJ Jovino. lithgow or bitster? |
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Marco1010
Senior Member Joined: February 04 2020 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 400 |
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The MAO stamp is interesting to note, if I recall correctly, somewhere about late 1943 Lithgow ceased assembling the whole rifle at the Lithgow factory as they were going to concentrate on bren guns.
The parts for the Lee enfields coming from Lithgow itself and all the feeder factories surrounding it such as orange, mildura, etc. All the final assembly was shifted to the Mildura factory hence the MAO stamp. After the war , the feeder factories closed down and all manufacturing and assembly moved back to Lithgow. However since the feeder factories had made massive quantities of parts in any case, and there was the grudging realisation that no1Mk111 rifles were going to be obsolete, Lithgow moved to assembly of rifles from existing parts stocks. Many of these rifles (1945 onwards) would have been moved straight to stores and sat unissued. To keep Lithgow staff employed, many issued ww2 rifles would have returned for FTR overhauls and then also go to storage. Jovino would have purchased lots of Australian defence force stores rifles at auction in the 60's and 70's , these would have been off the racks and been a mix of unissued, barely used, well used & abused, and some that were used but had been FTR. To top it off loads of those parts I mentioned earlier would have been part of the auctions as the stores officers would not want to be stuck with millions of parts of little value otherwise. In other words the auctions were a " job lot" you took it all or nothing. There could have been junk rifles , broken rifles, DP rifles as well. The stores officers wanted it gone, army depots and bases all over australia had sprung up due to the war and afterwards most were closed down, stores consolidated, sold were possible, if not sold dumped at sea or buried. There are some cool youtube sites of metal detectorists who search there old base / depot sites and its obvious from what they find a lot of stuff was got rid of, loads of Lee Enfield parts/rifles were stacked up and burned. If you think that was bad, should have seen how much lend-lease equipment, vehicles, aircraft went the same way. Jovino probably got those rifles for less than a dollar each.
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Zed
Special Member Donating Member Joined: May 01 2012 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 5585 |
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With regard to the import marks. If your looking for a rifle in the USA; I expect you may find it dificult to find an SMLE without an import mark. Seeing as they are all imported at some point in time.
Be aware of the possible issues with some JJCo builds; but don't discount the possibility that's a good original Lithgow built one.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Its a typo. type in manually do not enter the first "f". It does not open, but it downloads, check in your downloads folder it may already be there! |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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thanks Marco and Zed. 1945 is an interesting year. There was still some severe fighting going on, with the Germans not surrendering until may and the Japs in August. Admittedly the major Western front battles were over late 44 or very early 45, but I think New Guinea was still raging in 45. How many of these made it to the front versus surplus...Maybe some members of this board know this. I tell you though, it breaks my heart when you see the footage of perfectly good p51s and other airplanes being rolled off the back of an aircraft carrier. I am sure it is the same for these 303s. One of my favorite plans is the B24 liberator and I think there are only 2 flying examples remaking. So sad. I’ll post some more photos.
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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a couple more photos attached. Serial Number on forstock, bolt, barrel, nose cap, and stock match. Also the PAA marks on bolt and receiver match. I have been looking for months, and even though it is import marked, i am pretty excited about this one. I have asked the seller for more detailed pictures of the barrel knox and verification of the Copper Recoil Plates. the board has been good in verifying the import mark may not mean it is junk. let me know if I am overlooking something obvious. |
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Here is an embarasing (Novice) question....Is this image of a serial number on the receiver, or the barrel?
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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Can you get an image of the nosecap & muzzle from an angle that shows the relationship between the barrel outside & the nosecap front?
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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devrep
Senior Member Joined: October 28 2020 Location: florida Status: Offline Points: 625 |
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try this link. |
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double gun
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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That works for me, but also as a direct download.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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devrep
Senior Member Joined: October 28 2020 Location: florida Status: Offline Points: 625 |
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yes, its a PDF. I got it from the Lithgow museum site but can't find it on there now.
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double gun
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Hi Shamu, sorry for the slow response - i was out all day yesterday getting a Christmas tree! I am viewing this on gunbroker and think this is the photo you are looking but I wasn't sure so included others available. Also, was reading Skennerton's book on Australian SMLE Variations and came across a couple of interesting bits: 1) The barrel is marked HV SC, and apparently this was "...From November 1943 the SC mark was dispensed with." This barrel retains the SC mark. Does this suggest the barrel is not original to the gun? Apparently the mark on the barrel is scuffed from the sights. 2) Skennerton suggests brass was used for the inner and outer bands and butt swivel starting April 1942 and switched back to steel in 1945. these look like BA marked brass bands, but based on the serial number could be a later 1945 (F36302) Is it acceptable to still use brass? What do you think? Thanks. |
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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I got it as well. Thanks.
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Hi Devrep. You are spot on about the HV. I posted a photo later in this thread with a photo showing the HV SC stamp on the barrel.
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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The Armourer
Senior Member Joined: June 23 2019 Location: Y Felinhelli Status: Offline Points: 1246 |
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edit
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Shamu
Admin Group Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 17603 |
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The thing to remember is we're looking at the rifle from a slightly different perspective from an Aussie armorer back in the day. He fixed whatever needed fixing with whatever he had "sitting in a bucket" & got it back to the troops. Because of that I think we over-think the "matching bits" part of it. Many of these small mis-matched things are just a differing point of view.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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AussieShooter
Senior Member Joined: April 14 2019 Location: Chicago, IL Status: Offline Points: 343 |
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Thanks for the pics Armourer and the perspective Shamu. You are right, there was a lot going on in the world in 1945, a little bit like today.
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"Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges" - Tacitus
The more corrupt the state, the more it legislates |
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