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LE I* to SHT LE to .22 - what do I have? |
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Mayhem 
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Joined: February 06 2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 335 |
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 Topic: LE I* to SHT LE to .22 - what do I have?Posted: March 27 2025 at 2:16am |
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I'm buying a 1900 BSA LE I* that appears to be converted to a SHT LE by Sparkbrook in 1905 and subsequently converted to a .22 RF at a later date (.22 barrel, not a morris tube). I cannot pass it up at the price being offered but it is with a dealer until I get around to putting it into my collection (don't ask about our gun laws). I asked for some pictures of the stampings and received these:
  On the RH wrist there are markings beneath the original BSA LE I* that I am having trouble deciphering. I have tried to zoom in and also sharpen the image and this is the best I can do to improve the visibility. I am sure one of you will know what this is.   I cannot pass it up at the price being offered but it is with a dealer until I get around to putting it into my collection (don't ask about our gun laws). I'm also away at present and do not have access to my books, so all help with the markings is greatly appreciated. |
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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Zed
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Posted: March 27 2025 at 3:54am |
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That looks fantastic. Definitely worth buying!
The .22's are so much fun to shoot.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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Mayhem
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Posted: March 27 2025 at 3:11pm |
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I agree. I have a No. 2 Mk IV on my shooting license. This one however, will go onto my collectors license, which means I cannot shoot it. We are now only allowed a maximum of 10 firearms (5 if you hunt).
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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A square 10
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Posted: March 27 2025 at 5:32pm |
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that started llife as a long leee and got cut down at conversion to a SMLE length as a trainer for the mkI SMLE the left wrist is the converted marking ConD II
should be the bottom one in my picture [mine was a Lee Metford ,  the top is a Cno7 canadian trainer and the middle is a no2 mkIV
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Mayhem
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Posted: March 27 2025 at 11:09pm |
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Thanks A Square,
This one has a No 1 / No 2 nose cap. What does ConD II indicate?
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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Sapper740
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Posted: March 28 2025 at 12:58am |
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The SMLE Converted MkII is a conversion of M.L.E. and M.L.M. to be as close as possible to the factory SMLE Mk I. The conversions were done at both Enfield (1904 and 1905) and Sparkbrook (1904 to 1906) with Sparkbrook being the rarer of the two. Many SMLE ConD MkII were later upgraded to SMLE ConD MkII* making your rifle very rare.
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A square 10
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Posted: March 28 2025 at 3:24pm |
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the cap on mine is correct , but thats not to say the others might not get used , and im not sure the conversions om the MMLE might be slightly different than the MLM , ive not dug that deeply into them
as the MLM my rifle was originally made in 1892 , it retains its original volley sights and has not been upgraded to II* ,
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Mayhem
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Posted: March 28 2025 at 4:38pm |
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Thank you both for your input. Any idea what he poorly visible stampings in the bottom two pictures are?
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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DisasterDog
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Posted: March 28 2025 at 8:44pm |
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The marking you can’t make out likely says .22 PATT ‘14, which were .22 RF conversions mostly consisting of Con’d II and II*s by way of a sleeved barrel. The Mark I conversion used MkI*-type action bodies, whereas the Mark 2 used MkIII-type action bodies.
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Sapper740
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Posted: March 29 2025 at 4:22am |
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Further to Dog's comment, you should also see "AG Parker & Co. Ltd" stamped over "22 Patt 14" There is a chapter devoted to the .22 Short Rifle, Pattern 14 in Lance Lysiuk's excellent book "A COLLECTORS VIEW: The Lee Enfield .22-inch R.F. Rifles." which describes the difference between the No. 1 .22 RF rifle and the No.2 .22 RF rifle in great detail.
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DisasterDog
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Posted: March 29 2025 at 8:06am |
 Mine went a similar, yet different, direction. Made in 1898, converted for a sliding charger bridge, then converted to a Sht’22 III, then sent to NZ where it became a “No.2 MkIV*” (which is not possible as MkIVs used SMLE action bodies). Unfortunately the original markings were all scrubbed at .22 conversion, but you can just barely make out the 1898 date.
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DisasterDog
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Posted: March 29 2025 at 8:14am |
Lance’s book is an essential part of an Enfield library, I never could have identified mine without it & pulled it out last night to ID this example. He’s releasing a No.4 book later this year & might offer reprints of the .22 book, if anyone needs one! Very concise & easy to follow.
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A square 10
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Posted: March 29 2025 at 2:28pm |
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BTW , the ConD II did not jhave a box magazine , mine has one because the previous owner wanted to catch his brass , ive just never taken it off
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DisasterDog
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Posted: March 29 2025 at 6:54pm |
We’re confusing nomenclature, Con’d is not in reference to the .22 conversion. Rather, it is the conversion of MLE to ShtLE I pattern. Patt 14 is the reference to .22 conversion, using ShtLE I-style bodies, of which the Con’d is included.
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A square 10
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Posted: March 29 2025 at 8:08pm |
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im aware of the conversions ive responded to the markings on the rifles - you need tpo note that they are not marked as Pat 14s and if you research it not all are in that category , i dont have it at hand but there is a site that delves deeply into these , i go with the markings to keep from confusing those that are new further than our nomenclature already does ,
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Sapper740 wrote: