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Replicating Mk VII Ball Ammunition And/Or Zeroing |
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Rick
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Joined: April 24 2025 Location: NW MT/SE BC Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Posted: September 07 2025 at 8:53am |
To the OP: along with the corporate wisdom of "you should reload", the options where .303 British are concerned are not limited as many believe (and some post on the internet). If you are fixated on using a bullet of the same weight and FMJ design as the Mk VII ball round, there are numerous similar bullets available, not just the Sierra MKs. Hornady has their version, as does Privy Partisan (do yourself a favor by starting with virgin unfired PP brass and preparing it for first firing using the false shoulder "fireforming" technique). PP goes one step further by also offering that FMJ spitzer in not just 174 grains, but also in 150, 170, 180, 182 and 190 grain weights.
At about $15 per bag of $50, when it comes to load development, that's cheap like borscht. The remainder of the weights that result in poorer results can be loaded for shooting at closer ranges i.e. 100 yards where their lesser grouping ability will not make much difference. The one fly in the ointment where the FMJ designs available for reloading is concerned is that, without exception, every bullet offered by all these manufacturers is a boat tail design - which the Mk VII bullet was not. The Mk VII with it's open rather than enclosed base I believe (based on a
lot of experience with the similarly open based Nosler Partition in
worn bores) allowed the Mk VII bullet to obdurate to some extent to
better seal the bore and be engraved by the rifling in LE's with worn
bores. (I cannot add to that because I purchased my 1950 Long Branch for
Service Rifle competition, new from the factory with a hang tag and
covered in grease - no experience reloading for worn bores.) More current Lee Enfield corporate wisdom is that today's serious reloaders have found that rifles with worn bores do not group as well with boat tail bullets. Intriguing marketing/design criteria on PP's part: the majority of purchasers are buying these for surplus Lee Enfields, many well worn, that uniformly used the Mk VII ball round. But marketing tells them those customers are more attracted to a boat tail design rather than an open based design like that ball round that might give them better load development grouping results? Perhaps it shows how little the majority of Lee Enfield rifle owners know about their rifles? A boat tail MUST be better? I wonder if a campaign across all Lee Enfield forums to gather signatures to ask PP to consider offering an open base 174 grain version of their FMJ would catch their attention over in the Balkans? They're already happy to offer six different weight variations... Perhaps I should write a letter based on "faint hope" theory? If you allow your mind to consider bullets of weights and designs that do not resemble the Mk VII round, your possibilities expand quite a bit, and now your choices include bullets with flat bases similar to the military ball, although not having the open base. A short rummage through Lee Enfield forums here and elsewhere will allow you to find serious LE shooters engaging in shooting past 200, 300 yards who have had their best success finding a load that groups the best with their rifle using 150 grain soft point spitzers and the 180 gr. Sierra Game King. I have not had to resort to doing load development with those different bullets so I can't offer any personal comment. There is the cost of obtaining the tooling to reload. It isn't cheap to begin - but comparing the cost of reloading against the cost of purchasing commercial .303 British ammunition if you're going to do more than just fire a couple of boxes of ammunition a year shows how quickly the expense of getting into reloading is quickly recovered and future savings realized in comparison to purchasing your ammunition. Our fall gun show is going on this weekend. There are tables of reloading tools, some in "very well used" shape and others in near new shape. I walked past one table with a cardboard box that held an RCBS rockchucker press, case trimmer, powder scales, and some other stuff I couldn't see while walking past: looking nearly new and with a $225 price tag on it. What does the commercial .303 British ammunition of your choice cost per box? That's about the price of just the press alone. There is very good pricing on quality used reloading equipment on internet forums, EvilBay, local gun shows, etc... you just need to have the time and patience to search for what you're looking for at a price you're happy with. Anyways... there's some thoughts for you to consider.
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Rick
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Joined: April 24 2025 Location: NW MT/SE BC Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Posted: September 07 2025 at 10:49am |
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Please delete - subject distracts from the topic of this thread.
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Shamu
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Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
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Posted: September 07 2025 at 1:29pm |
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I don't quite understand? There's a "reloading" sub-section with its own "RELOADING" header with 2 areas, one for .303 & the other for 7.62mm. How would you like to have this changed exactly? Sorry if I'm being dense today!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: September 07 2025 at 2:00pm |
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The very well worn bore on my 1944 Long Branch shot boat tails just fine. I wished I had logged the round count, but I probably put over 10,000 rounds thru it over a 25 year period. In fact, this rifle holds the US CMP high recorded score in 2021 across the three classes of vintage service rifles (CMP Games Match Classes: M1, Springfield and Vintage Military Rifle in both the 30 round and 50 round course of fire). I’ve not found a better bullet yet, though the Hornady 174 BTHP shot similar.
I once pulled the Mk 7 bullets from a very good lot of DAC ‘51 Mk VIIZ ball and loaded them with my usual 40.0 grains of Varget. It did no better than the SMK, tho shot similar. I believe the reason is the thin SMK jackets allow the bullet to easily expand into the grooves. Also, I seated 174 SMKs in the DAC Mk VIIz cases without disturbing the powder charge and the SMKs gave about 70 fps more velocity than the Mk 7 bullets did, so the SMKs had no trouble sealing the well worn bore. No doubt, boat tails are not necessary, unless you need to develop a load that retains velocities high enough to work electronic targets at long range. I had such an occasion to do this in shooting my No. 4 DCRA 7.62 to 1000 yds on ShotMarker targets. This took a 168 TMK with a healthy charge of Varget to get 1200 fps at 1000 yards. Not recommended for routine shooting by any means. I have never been able to get the 180 gr Sierra PH flat base to group well in the No. 4, significant vertical stringing, but I gave up on it years ago without a lot of load development work, since the 174 SMK shot so well I pursued it no further. This is my experience, others may have a different experience. |
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Rick
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Joined: April 24 2025 Location: NW MT/SE BC Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Posted: September 08 2025 at 10:53pm |
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Please delete - subject distracts from the topic of this thread.
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Shamu
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Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
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Posted: September 09 2025 at 10:32am |
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I'm not sure why you're seeing that? I have the same opening page if I don't log in, but all I have to do is scroll down?
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Rick
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Joined: April 24 2025 Location: NW MT/SE BC Status: Offline Points: 83 |
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Posted: September 09 2025 at 11:41am |
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Please delete - subject distracts from the topic of this thread.
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