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Early DCRA conversion face lift |
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Olddust
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Joined: April 23 2021 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 1:02am |
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Arctic fox optics from Australia
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Moosm14
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Joined: October 20 2020 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 1:48am |
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Awesome! Thanks Olddust
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There is room for all of gods creatures ... right next to the mashed potatoes
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 3:46am |
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Olddust, have you shot the rifle yet? Would like to see how it shoots, can you post a target? You can also shoot this in our Virtual Match in the Unlimited class with scope off the bench.
I’ve collected numerous articles written by Maj E.G.B Reynolds on the work done by the UK NRA on development of the 7.62 Conversion rifles in the late 1950’s thru 1960’s which eventually became the Target Rifle (TR) Class. Many experiments were conducted on forend bedding and also by brazing a reinforcing strap to the action body to add stiffness. SQN LDR Dave Reynolds (RCAF), DCRA Armourer also wrote about this subject and collected shooting results data from various bedding methods from the DCRA team sent to Bisley. This work eventually resulted in the 4 lb heavy barrel allowed in the TR Class and installed on the L39, L42, Enforcer, etc. My conclusion was that it was really the ammunition that was causing the problem, poor quality made in worn out WWII machinery. My own experiments with DA 59, 60, 61 and 62 ball ammunition that was used at the time confirms the problem was ammunition, particularly the poor control of charge weights which varied by as much as 4 grains between cartridges in the same lot. This translated into significant vertical dispersion on the target. Bullet quantity was surprising good as pulled bullets from this ammunition reloaded in re-metered charges and with my own match load with 40.0 gr Varget shot very good. |
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Strangely Brown
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Joined: April 05 2022 Location: Wiltshire Status: Offline Points: 645 |
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 3:53am |
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Olddust, Nice rifle, sadly there are very few genuine DCRA No.4's in the UK although there are some No.4's with Canadian barrels less bayonet lugs.
Geoff, I think I posted once before that until some Raufoss 7.62mm was gifted to some UK shooters they didn't realise just how bad the offering from Radway Green was! During the 1980's RG had improved considerably with Green Spot and Black Spot, I managed my first ever "possible" with Black Spot at 800 yards on a windless morning at Bisley however, I digress from the point of my reply which is actually the difference in parlance between our two countries sport of historic competition shooting. In the UK when we talk of rifle classifications the term SR"b" only refers to .303 target rifles, when the era of 7.62mm descended on Bisley everything became TR (Target Rifle) although in the world of historic shooting there had to be some term dividing various rifle conversions for the purpose of competition. The NRA (UK) denotes a converted rifle to take the "new" 7.62mm calibre is known over here as Transitional, this applies to any Enfield be it a target rifle or sniper rifle like the L42A1, the term would also apply to say an Israeli K98 converted to 7.62mm. One of the competitions that the HBSA (Historical Breechloading Smallarms Association) put on over here is called the Green Spot for Transitional target rifles giving a nod to the period of changeover. |
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Mick
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britrifles
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 4:29am |
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Mick,
My Dad shot in SR(b) matches in the 1960’s, prior to the new TR class being introduced, where both .303 and 7.62 conversions. Reynolds also wrote about this, so I believe there was a transition where SR(b) matches were shot with .303 and 7.62 conversions with service length and service weight barrels and full length forends. The 28 inch long Kongsberg 4 lb heavy barrel appeared about at the time the new TR rules were adopted (late 1967) which now allowed a maximum rifle weight of 13.5 lbs w/o the sling. Canada adopted essentially the same TR Rules in 1968, which was right after my Dad got out of DCRA competitive shooting. This new TR rifle would not be eligible for SR(b) events for obvious reasons. Today we wonder why target shooters did not try handloads in the No. 4 7.62 conversions but at the time, ammunition was provided at the matches and handloads would have been prohibited. |
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 5:10am |
The other thing Geoff is that handloading wasn't a widely accepted concept in the UK; during the inter-war years the Match Rifle fraternity made up of high-ranking army officers and the titled aristocracy did a number of experiments at long range, (think 1200 yards shot in the supine position) which led to the further development of the MkVII .303 round. All of their handloading was done with the help of both ICI (Imperial Chemicals Industary) and Kynock using a variety of home grown products and imported propellants from the USA. It wasn't until the early 1960/70's that reloading materials and presses became more commonplace over here. A few years ago, the NRA (UK) published a notice saying that the use of 155gr ammunition was dangerous in No.4 actions unless they had been re-proofed to 20tons. The outcry and demands for proof were very loud indeed leading to the NRA issuing a statement saying that L39's, Envoys etc were exempt and that the statement was "advisory". The damage had been done though and LERA decided that we should not use 155gr ammunition in club owned rifles. At the time I was TR Captain and decided to work up a load using the 150gr SMK which was quite successful up to 600 yards (I rarely shot it at 900 or 1000) imagine my surprise when I found out that the 44gr's of N140 I was using was the same load developed in the 1970's by many Bisley shooters in search of more accuracy from their Enfield's. Major Reynolds name keeps cropping up so let me tell you I named one of our LERA SR"b" matches after him and leave you with this little bit of trivia; I found Major Reynolds name in the 1930 Bisley prize list in which he won £2 in the second stage of the Kings Prize, he's described as Corporal EGB Reynolds late of the 11th battalion Rifle Brigade! |
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Mick
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The Armourer
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 5:55am |
I know you know (and were involved) but I guess many here won't know anything about the arguments. The 'revised' instructions / warnings ended up as : NRA Safety Notice re No 4 7.62mm
Conversions This is the current stance of the NRA safety
warning which first appeared in the Summer NRA Journal: Safety Notice
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The Armourer
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 6:12am |
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Going off at a slight tangent (and entering the argument about 308 Vs 7.62) The Australian NRA banned the use of SAAMI 308 in 7.62 (from 303) rifle conversions.
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britrifles
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 6:51am |
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Shamu. might be worth moving this over to the 7.62 Enfield Forum. Some good info here, although I think it’s been posted here before.
Mick, interesting discovery on Corporal Reynolds. He published numerous articles in the American Rifleman (US NRA Journal) on the 7.62 conversions and development of the TR. Armourer, I agree with the comment about shooting in the rain, wet/oily chambers. Although I do believe keeping it clean and free from oil is good practice to minimize bolt thrust loads. |
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Shamu
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 10:08am |
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I just looked at the thread info & its already in the 7.62 sub forum! ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 1:33pm |
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"After further consideration of all factors influencing safety of these conversions and consultation with the Birmingham Proof Master, the following advice must be adhered to in respect of the use of Enfield No 4 conversions:"
This was after umpteen people had gone into the range office at Bisley demanding to know who had written the first draft that appeared in the NRA Journal. We had our suspicions who was responsible, and we believe he didn't have the authority to write it in the first place!
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Mick
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Honkytonk
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 2:09pm |
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I had a chance to swap straight up for a DCRA for my Ruger Old Army cap and ball (I bought it new in the early 80's). It was a nice enough rifle but couldn't see gearing up to reload 7.62 so I passed. No regrets.
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britrifles
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 3:49pm |
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Things like this get started, and it’s darn near impossible to squash it later.
I don’t really have any worries over shooting my 7.62 conversions because I handload mild charges. Now, having said that, I’ve loaded up some 155 and 175 Matchkings to moderately high .308 Win velocities (not max) in an attempt to get the electronic targets at 1000 yards to register hits (requires supersonic velocities) but this will be a very limited set of tests with less than 50 rounds, so not worried. |
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Shamu
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Posted: November 06 2022 at 5:10pm |
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"This was after umpteen people had gone into the range office at
Bisley demanding to know who had written the first draft that appeared
in the NRA Journal.We had our suspicions who was responsible, and we believe he didn't have the authority to write it in the first place! " Oh that sounds just SO familiar. ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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