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0.636" No.4 Bolt Head |
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Stumpkiller
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Joined: April 03 2020 Location: Port Crane, NY Status: Offline Points: 258 |
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Topic: 0.636" No.4 Bolt HeadPosted: April 10 2020 at 7:37pm |
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Have a 0.632" No.4 and it is just shy of proper headspace. If you have a 0.636" or 0.637" I would be very happy to hear from you.
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Charlie P.
Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce. |
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Goosic
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Posted: April 10 2020 at 8:22pm |
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I have to know what you are using as a headspace gauge and the thickness of it.
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Stumpkiller
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Posted: April 10 2020 at 8:58pm |
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I do not have go/no gauges. But I am basing it on closing the bolt on progressive layers of 0.007" brass shim stock cut to rim size behind a once-fired 0.063" rim Remington cartridge case until I could no longer close the bolt. My current bolt head reads 0.632" (even though it is a "O" refit from Fazarkerly) and I can still just fit one shim in behind the case for a "go" but two is a "no go". That takes me to 0.639". Backing off 0.003" for clearance I figure 0.636" will get me into the ballpark so I can neck size brass for a bit longer life.
Once fired brass sets the shoulder ahead about 1/10" but there is some but not alarming stretch at the base. At 0.2" above the rim the unfired cases are 0.451" and fired they are 0.455". Unfired the OAL is 2.214" and fired once is 2.228". That's coming from somewhere. The Greek HXP I also shoot has a 0.062" rim and that has a visually more "concerning" line above the base. But I have not planned on reloading that.
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Charlie P.
Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce. |
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Goosic
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Posted: April 10 2020 at 9:23pm |
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Before you jump the gun here. Let's look at your headspacing equipment. A fired case and .007" thick bras shim stock. Brass case head and layered with brass shims until the bolt no longer closes. In essence you have brass,air gap,brass,air gap,brass,etc etc. The actual no go headspace gauge has an exacting thickness of .074". Go .064" field .068" no go .074".
A SAAMI Forster field gauge is .070" and would get you a better reading then your current setup. Before you condemn the existing bolt head. Case stretch as you have described is very common due to the very generous chamber area. Remember. This rifle was built to shoot people originally and were never intended to be reloaded for. If the the case separated completely, no one cared as long as the bullet reached its target. Your current bolt head is a #0 at .0632" if a no go gauge failed,it would then have the next size up #1 at .0634"/.0635". Please invest in a no go gauge of proper thickness and then start with the next number sequence. Your original question had you asking about a bolt head at .0637. That's wandering into the realm of the elusive #3 bolt head and a possible worn chamber.
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Stumpkiller
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Posted: April 10 2020 at 9:43pm |
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"A SAAMI Forster field gauge is .070" " True enough. $29 plus $9.95 shipping if they were in stock (Graf & Sons is out) and I have only a one time use for it. Like many I am on a fixed income - which is to say my employer denies my requests for more wages. So I'm working on the cost effective approach. You are not wrong that my 0.063" plus 0.007" is only 0.070" and inside the 0.074" no go limit. But I seldom shoot or hunt in "battlefield" conditions and case life is more important to me than forgiving tolerances. 50 .303 cases are $24, so if I get two additional reloads out of a batch a "new" bolt head at $48 or thereabouts is absorbed. After that it's all good. From what I can find there are occasional #1 and frequent #2 bolt heads that go to 0.636". I'm looking for the measurement, not the stamped size.
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Charlie P.
Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce. |
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Goosic
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Posted: April 10 2020 at 10:03pm |
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Let me rephrase myself here. You can clean up your headspace with the proper sized bolt head. You have a rimmed cartridge so your headspace is between the bolt face and the back of the rimmed cartridge. You are still going to have a case that expands to meet the dimensions of the chamber and remembering that the chamber area is very generous, you will still experience case separations, stretched case necks. HeII,some chambers were reamed a tad off center and sometimes a fired case comes out leaning to one side.
I have been machining my own .074" NoGo gauges and as you say,it would be a onetime use issue,until you need it again when your headspace starts to slacken up as it will with use. I have four bolt heads that range from. 0636" to .0640". PM me and we can discuss a price.
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Stumpkiller
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Posted: April 10 2020 at 10:26pm |
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PM sent. Thanks for watching out for me.
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Charlie P.
Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce. |
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britrifles
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Posted: April 11 2020 at 5:28am |
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Tightening up headspace should reduce stretching of the case web and provide you with longer case life.
I think the gage nomenclature was stated in reverse. Should be .064 GO, .070 NO GO and .074 Field. The No Go is used only by armorers for setting headspace when assembling the rifle. Field is used, well, in the field as the maximum acceptable headspace. If it failed the field gage, it went back to the armorer for correction. I set the headspace of my rifles to close on a .064 GO but not on a .070 NO GO. I think this is part of the reason why I get many reloads on the brass until case web cracking appears. SAAMI standards will be slightly different given as 0.064 Min, 0.071 Max. Field is usually Minimum + 0.010, 0.074. Using a case with brass shims is a bit “spongy” for feeling when the bolt closes. The camming action of the bolt lugs is quite strong, use very light finger pressure for when you feel the bolt close. It’s also not easy to get a precise rim thickness measurement. If your bonding shims on the case, the bond line will have a thickness to it. Perhaps we can get Armorer to chime in and straighten us out here... |
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englishman_ca
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Posted: April 11 2020 at 12:00pm |
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Hopefully taken as friendly advise for ya. Don't d**k around, just get a 0.074 FIELD gauge and see if the bolt closes on it.
If it doesn't close, we good! Yours just fails? There was a war time relaxation of headspace to 0.080 at one time. So relax. There have been generations of hunters using surplus Lee Enfields and they likely didn't even know what head space was, never mind in what condition. Head space appears to be a modern concern brought about by the popularity of reloading ammunition. The 303 British cartridge was intended to chamber and fire in a battle rifle with provision of a generous chamber which would allow for chambering in mud and sand of the trenches. The brass was a one shot and throw away deal.
Setting things into spec is great. But actually the rifle is very forgiving with regards to chambers and head space, even when worn, they are still safe to shoot. No concerns, unless you reload. There are other methods that can be used to check headspace, but they can give a false evaluation, they all have potential for error. If you are serious about working with Lee Enfields, then you should have a mil spec FIELD gauge in your tool box. I work by the KISS principal. |
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Shamu
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Posted: April 11 2020 at 1:59pm |
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Let me jump in here for a second if I may. The .303 is a rimmed case. Because of that headspace is between
0.064" (minumum, any less you may not be able to chamber a round)0.067" (optimum between too tight & too loose) & 0.074". Sloppy maximum (unless theres a war on.) Now lets not confuse that with the infamous "oversized chamber" which allowed filthy, mud covered cases from seating into the neck area of the chamber & tying the rifle up in combat. They are frequently confused & this is where a lot of the misunderstanding comes from. In a rimmed .303 case ANYTHING FURTHER IN FRONT OF THE BOLT FACE IS NOT HEADSPACE! It a "generous chamber" problem! It is mostly a problem for reloaders trying to reuse brass multiple times. The original design was "fire & forget", lets keep that in mind. |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: April 11 2020 at 5:18pm |
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Agree with all the above. But, shoot 100 rounds a week and you quickly figure out reloading saves a lot of money. And gives you complete control of the load. Brass longevity becomes important. It’s quite simple to control headspace and it does seem to minimize strain in the case web. I’ve said it many times before here, I typically get 50 reloads with my brass until case head cracking occurs. I doubt 0.074 headspace would permit this.
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Stumpkiller
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Posted: April 12 2020 at 6:04pm |
No worries. If someone cares enough to educate me (a stranger) I appreciate the intent and gesture. But let me 'splain. I am a reloader (since 1976) and a shooter/hunter. I have no doubt my No 4 Mk 1/2 left the FTR in mostly the shape I have it. Relatively sound, new (1955) barrel with lovely bore. I know and appreciate the rifle was designed to chamber a sandy, muddy, iced up round. BUT. I want minimal case disruption on that all important first shot of new cartridges that opens the brass to a generous "service" chamber. Major George C. Nonte, Jr. in my treasured volume of MODERN HANDLOADING (1972) calls it "case space" rather than headspace. If I can minimize the amount the case must open up with the all important first firing I can thereafter neck-resize or even "bump" (I use sets of Redding 0.002" sequential she!! holders in other calibers that headspace on the neck) to put as little stress on a case during firing as possible. I won't be neck turning, checking run-out, or other "tricks" for the .303 British. But I will appreciate adding maybe two additional reloads before retiring the brass. The esteemed Maj. Nonte refers to that as removing the "slop". That said - I have made arrangements for the desired bolt head and a No Go gauge so I am in tall cotton.
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Charlie P.
Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce. |
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englishman_ca
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Posted: April 13 2020 at 9:03am |
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Try the 'O-ring trick' for fire forming. It really does work.
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. Look to your front, mark your target when it comes! |
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pisco
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Posted: April 26 2020 at 2:41am |
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i head space tighter then mil spec and get good case life i get more split necks then case separations
i have put up a post on how i head space my smles it might not be to everyone’s liking but it works batch your brass to the rifle and neck size only helps for case life
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