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Bolthead Over Rotation Update

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Goosic View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 28 2020 at 1:49pm
 I have been in contact with Rex111 and working with him through phone call and text. He has sent me his bolt assembly which has yet to arrive. However, I did manage to assemble NOS pieces together to create a brand new and unused bolt assembly. Both lugs have been measured and are of equal length of 3.562" and the bolt body is 5.565" which is .010" longer than my other spares. Working on the threaded end of the bolthead,  I stoned the back area that contacts the firing pin to produce a .014" gap between the striker and bolt body, creating a firing pin protrusion of 0.055", using an unissued #3 bolthead with a 0.6395" length. Bolt rotation is only 0.050" over center. It is a start as far as improving the overall condition of the rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2020 at 2:03pm
Nicely done!
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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The Armourer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2020 at 2:34pm
Well done, 

I guess it now comes down to how worn his locking lugs are, or, even if the hardening has been penetrated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2020 at 2:42pm
His bolt assembly should be here by Monday.  Just going off if his emails and texts, the bolt shows signs of being mushroomed at the mating surface were the bolthead contacts and there is noticable back and forth motion in the same area with a no load bearing scenario. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2020 at 2:51pm
Let us know how it works out Goosic.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stumpkiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2020 at 5:26pm
Following this thread!  Nicely mated up bolt.  I love watching craftsmen at work.

Trying to imagine what could have crushed the bolt as you describe [that he describes].  I wonder if the threads on the head have been sheared a bit by someone trying to back the head out a turn and firing repeatedly.  Then later with it back fully seated there might be enough play to cause a "floating head" that had enough play to hammer the bolt body with each shot.  

Be very interesting for your eventual diagnosis.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2020 at 5:33pm
 The owner of the rifle bought it with an unmatched bolt. The test I had him do by inking the locking lugs confirmed what I had assumed. The short lug does not contact its recess. Previous ownership probably shot it excessively, hammering the bolthead backwards into the bolt body widening the threads while at the same time creating excessive cross shearing with only one lug contacting its recess in the reciever. As soon as the original bolt gets here, I will make some additional measurements to get this new one as close to possible of making contact evenly across both lugs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2020 at 11:07am
It will be interesting to see what dimensions you get from the original bolt. Especially the length of bolt shoulder to lug surface.
However I think you'll need the rifle if you want to fit your new bolt. If the orginal bolt only shows contact on one lug; you won't know how much gap you have on the other side. Personally I would not attempt to modify a bolt lug fit without the rifle present. I've only done this once for my No1MkIII*, so I'm no expert! But it would have been impossible without the rifle to match the new bolt body to. 
This is only my 2 cents worth Goosic; as you have far more experience than I do with regard to building Enfields. I am interested to see how this turns out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2020 at 11:46am
My intention will be for him to use my .070 gauge first while marking the contact surface on the lugs to give a definitive of where the contact points are. My though process has me making a great assumption that an unissued bolt body paired with an unissued bolthead should in theory, line up inside the lug recesses without any troubles,say for maybe .001" + or - that can be rectified with some extra fine Emory cloth and patience. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Armourer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2020 at 11:59am
There was a specific inspectors bolt and volt head which was used to test an action that otherwise was difficult to head space, if it couldn't be head spaced with either an old bolt / new bolt head, or a new bolt / new bolt head the rifle was tested with the calibrated bolt - they could often still fail and would be scrapped.

An old post from 2008

GAUGE, inspectors, selected breech bolt......... Haven't seen one of these for a few years. Yes....! Only used by the most senior examiner, this bolt was a calibrated bolt made to the EXACT size. It was kept in an oily drawer along with the other gauges. It's main use was as the final arbiter as to whether a body was worn out. I seem to recall that the No1 gauges came with a matched bolt head which your are missing (oh no they're not, I've just looked properly......!) The locking shoulders were specially hardened so NEVER use one of these bolts as a true bolt and the distance between them and the face of the bolt was the datum. When it was impossible to get CHS, using the old bolt and boltheads then a new bolt, you'd use the gauge bolt do the final check. If this failed then the rifle was scrapped as this calibrated bolt had deemed that the body locking lugs were worn through.

The No4 bolt didn't come with a bolt head as a matched set BUT there was a special bolt head to be used with it that was a special measurement that I forget at the moment. This did the same thing.

This gauge bolt also dictated wear in the boltway. For example, the smaller left locking lug MUST clear the nose of the sear when loading and unloading. If it does foul, then the gauge bolt is used to verify that the body is worn and not the new bolt. This test should be carried out with the bolt lightly pressed down towards the sear nose to give an accurate assessment of the condition of the body. Obviously, it could also be used as a gauge to test other worn bolts too but in those cases, we had the 'inspection standards' specifications to refer to.


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The gauge bolt was also used as the condemnation level for other things, apart from being scrapped. DP for example! The gauge bolt will also tell the Armourers whether the body locking lugs are worn unevenly or whether one side of the rifle bolt has run through the hardened shoulder. The rifle will still function perfectly and is suitable for training but NOT for service use.

Anyway, there's a few examples of how the GAUGE, inspectors, breech bolts were used. Kept by the senior examiners, calibrated initially by the Chief Inspector of Small Arms at Woolwich (the CIA mark) and then annually or so at the calibration laboratory,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2020 at 12:16pm
When I fitted the new bolt body to my rifle; I used "prussian blue" (engineers blue paste) to check the surface. The small lug had only light contact. I used a jeweller's Arkansas stone to remove probably 1 thou from the large lug to even up the contact. To prevent scratching the bolt shaft; I wrapped a bit of beer can around the shaft at the lugs to prevent the stone touching the shaft.
It was quite a long process; 2 or 3 strokes of the stone, then blue and fit to check; then repeat until correct. You can't afford to take of too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mgmaniac45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2021 at 10:50am
I am a new owner of a No 4, Mk1, long branch from 1943. My bolt is a numbers match to the rifle. It has a #3 Samson bolt head. It does over rotate and the striker is flush with the bolt head "at rest". The rifle will not fire as of this writing. Should I send mine out to you also? I do want to make this a shooter, but especially safe to use.
Thank you.
Enjoying my Enfield #4 Mk 1* Long Branch 1943
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