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Is it an Enfield?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2020 at 12:16pm
Terry, your really do have an incredible collection. That must be as rare as a Unicorns Butt plug!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2021 at 1:02pm
I would like to jump into this discussion to seek advice on a P14 restoration.   I have an early Winchester P14 non *.  A previous owner had put it back together with a fat Eddystone stock.  I recently picked up stock that is either Winchester or Remington.  The wood is in good condition but sanding over the years has removed just about all of the cartouche's.  One can barely see part of the circle around the company mark    Based on the wood plug in ID disk spot, it is a WW2 W.R.S modified stock with a letter that could be a P in the W.R.S marking spot (Parker-Hale).  It has a volley sight dial plate but no other parts.   There are a couple of issues with the stock set.  The stock's Tie-bolt has a M1917 slotted head and the rear hand guard is an M1917 hand guard not a P14.    I can get the parts to restore the volley sight, either transfer from the current stock or another buy. I could also swap out rear hand guards but no matter how I put it together 1.  keeping the Eddystone stock on a Winchester rifle or 2 having Volley sights on a stock with a W.R.S wooden plug it will not be completely correct.  The only correct version would be a WW2 configuration with no volley sights and that seems to rob the rifle of its history.   So in your opinions which is the nicer configuration:  Mismatched stock/metal or just view the ID tag wooden dowel as part of the gun's history.  Pictures  Current Eddystone then left and right of the Winchester? stock set   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 27 2021 at 4:32pm
the P14 stocks were not marked as the M17s were , the eddystone P14 stock was called "fat boy" as it was beefier in the belly than the remington or winchester - one of the minor differences , grasping grooves were another , 

the M17 stocks were stamped with an "E" , "R" , "W" but the manufacturers , 

an aside , there were stocks made for the weedon P14 refurb that were made in Scotland , they were made between the wars and deleted the volleys that were removed in that refurb , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2021 at 3:31pm
A Square, 

didn't the originals (P14 stocks) have a roundel stamped on the side of the butt marked IR IW or IE?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 28 2021 at 6:40pm
not all of them , i sent my references with my rifles when i sold them so i cannot look back to refresh my memory , sorry bout that , after nearly 40 assorted P14s & M17s i downsized to three , then to two , now to none , ive noted the stratton for P14 and ferris for M17 in other threads , they are not all that costly and well worth the investment if you are going to have one or both , 

there was no cross use between mfgrs in original configuration so they would have all matching bits , my references told where to look and what the marks were but again i no longer have them , 

edited to add - there is a little discussed bit of trivia associated with this rifle , before it was developed from the Pattern 13 rifle they toyed with making an M1903 in 303 , there were a couple prototypes but they never got very far , being a mauser action you can see the decision to go with the mauser action P13 already in development made some sense , both required revisions for cartridge , 
then equally sensible the obvious decision by the US to revise the P14 to M17 when it became obvious springfield armory had its hands full with the M1 , the way might have gone differently had not both contracted with the three US manufacturers 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2021 at 7:21am
I have Skennerton's US Enfield book,
but it's been a long while since I went thru it, 

need to pick it up and refresh my memory a bit
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2021 at 8:19am
Correct.  A circle with an IR or IW over 1914 for a Remington or Winchester.  Just to the right of the ID disk location.   This stock has been sanded so many times that the cartouche's are generally not visible.  For the manufacturer's mark, I can barely make out part of the circle (about 7 to 12 on a clock scale) but that is all.   The only other mark visible is what might be a P under the pistol grip.  Might be a P indicating that it was a Parker Hale W.R.S update.   I have attached a reference picture from Stratton showing a Remington marking 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 29 2021 at 11:31pm
"....I have Skennerton's US Enfield book..." 

yes i still have my bible as well , but its strattons books - not as well respected but they have the tables for production and serial numbers that are more useful , ill not dispute any that want to claim more complete or comprehensive but you need both to have all of what is currently available , each has its use and one day each will have its shortcomings when someone compiles a far more comprehensive anal , in my mind you currently need both to have more ability to analyze what you have in hand , 

i spoke with ian back in the day , he never disputed there was info in both worthy of consideration , you need to evaluate what you get from each , much as you need to evaluate what you read on the internet , nothing is complete and final , never say always or never when discussing enfields , its part of what makes them interesting to those of us that seriously collect[ed] them 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 30 2021 at 9:18am
Agree.  That issue came up when I found an early BSA No. 4 Mk1.  Needed both books to figure out the early serial number.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2021 at 11:24am
The seller of the stock set is sending me a P14 rear handguard so will replace the fat Eddystone stock set with the Winchester/Remington set.  I have picked up a front volley sight arm, spring and nut so I do not have to remove them from the Eddystone and will have a complete extra Eddystone stock set.   The one anachronism will be the W.R.S wooden plug on a rifle with volley sights.  Part of the history of the rifle.  If I change my mind or some later collector wants to, it would be easy to cut out and replace with a metal ID disk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 01 2021 at 6:15pm
im not at all certain how the disc cut got filled but ....these were issued as "foreign aid" to every friendly that requested them , that may be how that occurred , i realize that weedon was the first refurb for P14 and yes , that was done , but nothing says that this did not occur in aftermarket use with rifles that still wore it when transferred , its one of the many interesting aspects of collecting them , as well as all other commonwealth items , "never say always or never" about the time you do someone will have that anomaly that misses the mark , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SW28fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 02 2021 at 5:24am
OK how about: "Avoid using the terms like Always and Never when discussing Enfields" Wink
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