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Help Identifying an Enfield N0. 4 MK 1

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turboil View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 09 2012 at 2:47am
Hello I bought an Enfield No.4 MK 1 at a local gun shop and I'm having problems identifying it.  I am attachin pictures and I am particular curious on why I don't see anything but a serial numberr on the strap from what I saw there should be a date and maybe some other marking there.
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Ed Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2012 at 4:02am
It looks like the original numbers ay have been scrubbed and then re-stamped. Does the number on the bolt match? It looks like there was a modification of the rear sight, can we have a picture of it?
Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2012 at 4:15am
OKay here are 2 pictures of the rear sight.  I took the bolt out but I don't see a serial number where should it be located?
 
Thanks
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White Rhino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2012 at 5:11am
Same here !!  I was comparing photo with My MK2 Paki ..and I have the screw head on the right side of my sight mount ..unlike the left side in the photo ..  
Same thing on the 1943 No4 MK1 and the Long Branch ....?????
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turboil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 09 2012 at 5:19am
Here is a picture of the bolt Serial No.
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Ed Hill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 1:01am
Well, I hope someone else weighs in...  I think the numbers were scrubbed  and new ones added. The sight is an after-market item, not military issue. Are there any other marks on the barrel? Import/export stamps?  And can we get a look at the right side of the receiver?

Ed 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 4:24am
I will post pictures of the right side shortly. The rear sight from what I can find looks to be a Parker Hale Apeture sight with windage adapter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 5:06am
Here is the picture of the right side of the receiver and I took the back half of the hand guard off and I could see BZ on the barrel.  The screw on the front band is stubborn and I haven't got that to off yet to get the whole hangaurd off so Ican get the barrel and the action out to take a better look.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 5:45am
I think you're correct on the sight and they are pricey and difficult to find. 
Hopefully, some one else will weigh in, my best guess just from the looks and stock would be a Fazakerly, but that is just a guess. It looks to be in very good condition, have you shot it yet?

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 5:49am
I haven't shot it yet I was planning on doing it tomorrow.  Honestly my concern was is it worth what I bought it for after I started digging into it and if it isn't should I try and get my money back.  I am not sure whether talking price is something that is okay in these forums or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 9:19am
Oh, sure, we'd love to know what you paid for it!

Ed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 9:33am
Sure I don't mind I paid $399 which I thought out of the gate was about $50 too much but the bore looked good and the stock was nice.  I also liked the target sites since I shoot steel at 300yds a lot of the time with some of the other older miltary rifles I have like my M91/30, M39 and 1903A.  The one thing that got me being new to Enfields I thought the target site was actually an Enfield option not an aftermarket sight.  Any way I appreaciate the help and just was seeing if I did okay for a rifle I really just want to have fun shooting with it this definitely won't be something thast just hangs on the wall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Hill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 1:37pm
I think you did fine!  I'm in the PRK and prices vary across the US, but at the last few gun shows they were asking $299 to $399 for No. 4mk1's,  $350 to $400 for No. 1's, and $599 for No.5's. Lithgows seem to command a premium of $450. These are in average or worse condition. I can't tell if the metal finish is original from the pictures but your rifle seems to be in very good condition.

I think you'll find that rear sight goes for $125 to $150 ( or more) on EBAY, and they are hard to find.

I'm getting concerned that East coast sank or something since we haven't heard from anyone else! Shamu should be able to give some current price comparisons from Virginia/Maryland

Ed  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 10 2012 at 11:38pm
Well I did some more investgation and the rear sight on it seems to be the one made for the training .22 rifle.  These are not too expensive and sold on ebay marketed for the No. 4. The probelm with that is the reveiver hole for the windage screw needs to be enlarged with a #13 drill and another hole made for the detent ball and spring.  Who ever did this didn't even bother to put in the detent ball and spring.  This would seem to indicate that I may a receiver that now cannot take a stock sight if I wish to put one in and I have a aftermarket sight not meant for this rifle not even properly installed .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2012 at 6:40am
No4's didnt have a detent ball, they had a detent plunger on the right side and from the pics(they are all long and distorted on my computer), yours looks to have the detent plunger.
I would check if the mounting hole has indeed been modified as I think there was a sight that went straight on without that mod.
Looks like a nice rifle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turboil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 11 2012 at 8:39am
The detent I was referring too was for the windage screw.  I am attaching a picture you can see where they actually did drill the hole where the detent ball should go but it is not there.  The link I have put in here shows some other real Parker Hale sights for this rifle and also talks about the one that looks like the one  this rifle has.  I want to use this to shoot in Military Rifle and Vintage matches and at first I figured if the sight was not allowed I could just put on an original but looks like they reamed the hole for the pivot ping so that may not be possible.   I must say everyone has been really helpful and this is a great learning experience in Lee Enfields I wish I had some of this knowledge before my first purchase but it is a nice looking rifle and although I have not shot it yet and I am sure it will be a lot of fun to shoot.
 
 
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