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Frank_Ward View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 18 2022 at 12:31pm
Hi from Ireland.

I am looking at purchasing a No.4 Lee Enfield.

I have viewed a really nice rifle that has been regulated by Fulton. It has matching serial numbers on the receiver, bolt and fore end.

The issue is, there are no markings on the wrist of the rifle. Is that common?
Based on the serial number "AV12***" I believe its a Maltby, 1943ish made rifle. Would no marking on the wrist be odd?

Thank you

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 5:03pm
No4 Mk2 looks like. S/K scope mount?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 5:07pm
not uncommon on a no4 , they were commonly marked on the left receiver , granted some were marked on the wrist but not unexpected to see no markings there - now , that serial number sounds suspiciously like a gibbs of some other after market refurb of original [unless you left off a few digits ] 

no longer have my references but my recollection is there were generally a letter or double letter prefix and 4 [BSA only] or mostly 5 digits with contracts awarded with each producer having been assigned by the first digit , ie the FAZ 2 , BSA 3 , Maltby 1 , all had a block starting with 10000-19999, 20000-29999 , 30000-39999 etc and longbranch 0L etc , savage 0C etc
there were no prefix and only two digits [except possibly in pre production trials rifles maybe ] 

like i said i no longer have my references to give more , but someone may jump in with that info , 
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Frank_Ward View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frank_Ward Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

No4 Mk2 looks like. S/K scope mount?

Receiver is stamped no.4 mk1/2. Mount was added by Fulton
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Frank_Ward View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frank_Ward Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

not uncommon on a no4 , they were commonly marked on the left receiver , granted some were marked on the wrist but not unexpected to see no markings there - now , that serial number sounds suspiciously like a gibbs of some other after market refurb of original [unless you left off a few digits ] 

no longer have my references but my recollection is there were generally a letter or double letter prefix and 4 [BSA only] or mostly 5 digits with contracts awarded with each producer having been assigned by the first digit , ie the FAZ 2 , BSA 3 , Maltby 1 , all had a block starting with 10000-19999, 20000-29999 , 30000-39999 etc and longbranch 0L etc , savage 0C etc
there were no prefix and only two digits [except possibly in pre production trials rifles maybe ] 

like i said i no longer have my references to give more , but someone may jump in with that info , 

The serial number has an AV prefix followed by five digits beginning with 1. That's why I believe its from Maltby. The left hand side of the receiver is stamped no.4 mk1/2 followed by the serial number. there are no markings to say where it was made or where it was upgraded from a mk1 though.
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Goosic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 7:30am

[/QUOTE]
The serial number has an AV prefix followed by five digits beginning with 1. That's why I believe its from Maltby. The left hand side of the receiver is stamped no.4 mk1/2 followed by the serial number. there are no markings to say where it was made or where it was upgraded from a mk1 though.
[/QUOTE]
If we could see some photos of the complete reciever and bolt with the serial number, we can ascertain what it is you own.
Except for some, all FTR rifles were refurbished at the Fazackerly factory. 
Sidenote: We can reference the complete serial number easier to get you your answer that you seek.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frank_Ward Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 10:25am
That's a picture of the receiver and serial number.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 1:28pm
Yes, a No4 Mk1 FTR'd at Fazakerly & upgraded to the hung trigger.
Subsequently Sold Out Of Service, then "Regulated By Fultons" & presumably scoped there? But . . .
"No4 Mk2 looks like. S/K scope mount?"
Agreed it even says so.
(EDITED to fix typo) I find that odd. The S&K was a shorter copy of the Fultons, so why would Gibbs put on  a copy instead of their own mount?

S&K on my No5 "Goobermint Model Sporter"

Fulton's mount on a No4 Mk2

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by Frank_Ward Frank_Ward wrote:

That's a picture of the receiver and serial number.
As vague as the photo is, it breaks down like this: Unless it is an early made Long Branch or Savage, a No4Mk1/2 was either originally made at Fazackerly, Maltby or BSA Shirley. Being that your serial number after the prefix letters starts with a 1, that would be an indicator that it came from the Maltby plant. That being said though. The definitive proof that it being made at the Maltby plant would be if there are any tiny circles with numbers inside them stamped anywhere on the reciever...
(I am using a photo Pukka Bundooks shared as an example)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveNo5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 4:27pm
I have this from Stratton's British Enfield Rifles Vol. 2.  The five-digit serial number and AV prefix indeed make it a Maltby by this reference.  The second image is the serial number range that Stratton shows for Maltby.  Stratton also shows that Maltby rifles were marked "M," "RM" or "ROFM."  I do not know where these marks would appear.  I also do not know if they would appear on all rifles.  The AV prefix does not appear, in Stratton's list, but should fall sometime in the first half of 1943 if they were numbered sequentially. Maybe someone else has some insight either of these? Welcome to the forum. Dave



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 6:10pm
Those initials in a circle were unique to Maltby IIRC.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 6:25pm
The OP's rifle is AV12997. My No4Mk1/2 is BV15240 and has no markings on the wrist except for a broad arrow. The only way I knew for certain it is a Maltby was from the one and only circle with a number inside of it stamped on the bottom of the reciever...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2022 at 9:36pm
this is what happens when we try to be helpful to someone that gives less than full information and no photos - all of what i gave was accurate , it needed the interface with the OPs real data , but it was what would help if applied , what was given was deficient and i should just have ignored it or asked for more , if anyone wishes to take issue read the OP 

came back as to avoid that sounding to harsh - not my intent , i just wish people would share all the info to get the best response , ill stop responding to the ones that dont , ill stay calmer 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frank_Ward Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2022 at 2:39am
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

this is what happens when we try to be helpful to someone that gives less than full information and no photos - all of what i gave was accurate , it needed the interface with the OPs real data , but it was what would help if applied , what was given was deficient and i should just have ignored it or asked for more , if anyone wishes to take issue read the OP 

came back as to avoid that sounding to harsh - not my intent , i just wish people would share all the info to get the best response , ill stop responding to the ones that dont , ill stay calmer 

Apologies for the vague post I'm trying to get as many photos as I can from the seller. Attached are the markings onvthe rifle that he has just sent me. I appreciate your advice and I would like to thank you again for your help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2022 at 5:42pm
no problem , i was just venting over a number of past posts that ended up acting like i had not given helpful info and i was feeling a little left out , at my age we get marginalized often enough that i should not get offended ever , 

im fine , your fine , hope i can help in the future but there are many here that are very capable of responding to most anything that comes up , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2022 at 6:58pm
The N79 is a dispersal code for Viners Ltd. Sheffield who made that specific part. The two tiny stamps on the left side of the wrist are also some of those Maltby stamps. The bolthead stamps are just typical stampings.
 
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