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Ishapore bore?

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Arminius View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 02 2019 at 3:29pm
My Ishi looks beautiful!
 
Nice, dark wood, bore looks good.
 
No chance to shoot it yet Ermm
 
I used some Patches on a jag, and they came out clean.
 
Ok, so well.
 
Then, just for insurance, I took a NEW .32 pistol bronze bore brush. ( who does NEED a .32 PISTOL bore brush? )
 
With a wet bore ( Break Free ) and Break Free on the brush, I brushed the bore. 10 times.
 
Lots of gunk!
 
ok.
 
As I Always do, I clean the brush in some, else not used, light oil.
 
Gave a "cloud" of dark colour in the cleaning jar!
 
ok.
 
Flushed the brush until clean. Let all dirt / gunk run out.
 
Next day, jag and patch gun. Dirt comes out, with next patches gets cleaner.
 
Use some patches with Hoppe´s No 9 … there is hardly any Copper there. Even with 15 min wait - no blue.
 
Take the .32 pistol bronze brush again. Wet - Always Break Free there.
 
Gunk gets out. Lots of gunk, for clean patches before!
 
Brush dipped in oil gives again a "cloud" of dirt in the oil!
 
Repeated that several times, still going on.
 
What´s that?
 
There were clean patches before??
 
I think, this is "Carbon", "Powder soot", and perhaps layers of Carbon mixed with dried gun oil.
 
What do you say, what this is? What shall I do?
 
( I will repeat the process, until bore ( = edges between lands and grooves ) are  C L E A N. )
 
Thanks in advance, Hermann
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 6:19am
More bores have been damaged by over scrubbing than by over shooting!
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I'd take it easy with the big brush & use a soaking solvent type cleaner. Let chemistry do the work instead of "elbow Grease". Fouling is like philo pastry many thin layers all on top of each other. What may be happening is you break through a layer of metal fouling & find another layer of powder fouling & then repeat over & over. You may be cleaning out decades of hardened set fouling remember.

I don't know if they are available over there but I use the M-Pro-7 bore cleaner & copper remover as directed. You wet the bore & let it stand overnight, muzzle down, then repeat with the other cleaner. Minimal brushing involved.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 7:06am
Sounds like another milsurp rifle I cleaned some time back; forget which one it was, but I certainly remember the black and blue patches coming out of it. Barrel seemed pretty clean to start with, but after letting some bore cleaner soak in for a while, vast amounts of crud started to come out on the patches in what seemed like a never-ending process.

As Shamu says, these rifles were likely shot for years, building up nice thick layers of crud that may have sat there for decades since the last time anyone cleaned it. That'll take a while to remove.

It's an interesting question as to whether it's going to shoot better with or without the crud in there, which might be filling in pitting or other damage to the bore. But I still prefer a clean barrel myself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 7:17am
If you have Hoppe's 9, soak a patch and push slowly thru bore from breach end and out the muzzle.  The patch should not be too tight fitting in the bore or it just "wrings out" the solvent in the chamber.  Do this twice.  Always wipe the rod off with a clean cloth before putting thru the bore. 
 
Let soak over night.
 
Next day, push tight fitting dry patch thru bore.  It will likely show green (copper) and black (carbon).  You can reverse the patch and wipe the bore a few times back and fourth to dry it out (or use another patch).
 
Repeat the process above with a wet patch.  Hoppe's won't remove copper unless you let it soak several hours; do this twice a day until the bore is clean.  And yes, there will be layers of copper ironed over the carbon fouling.  Unless you have a new barrel that hasn't been fired. 
 
Use a Parker Hale style jag, coated cleaning rod and a cleaning rod guide in the breach.  This will prevent damaging the bore.  Shamu is quite right, you can damage the bore with a dirty cleaning rod and no rod guide.
 
After your first time shooting, push two wet patches thru bore (from breach and out thru muzzle, don't drag the dirty patch back thru the bore).  Brush bore with a NYLON .30 Cal. brush, 10 strokes or so., from breach end push right thru bore, do not reverse the brush in the bore.  Push another wet patch on jag thru bore.  Let this soak for several hours, then dry patch and light oil.  That should be enough for routine cleaning. 
 
Don't forget to clean the chamber; dry it completely before shooting, don't leave any oil in the chamber.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 1:04pm
Thanks to all!
 
I really do this already:
 
This is a .32 PISTOL bronze bore brush.
 
I use only BRASS rods. I use brass jags and top notch cotton patches.
 
I never reverse a brush in the bore, but, if the bore get´s cleaner, I DO short stroke jag with patch.
 
I had NO trace of blue with Hoppe´s # 9, but it´s the "new" Hoppe´s# 9, and I let it sit for, maybe, 20, 25 minutes. Which should give, in my experience, "some" blue. But it didn´t.
 
I BET this is layers and layers of carbon, maybe old oils, blank firing, whatever.
 
I will go on, as always, with care.
 
Thanks to all, Hermann
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 1:35pm
Also consider if its a "false positive" from the cleaning equipment!
I recently switched from brass rod & tips to carbon fiber rod & alloy tips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42rocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 3:08pm
Lots of interesting info here Thanks 
 
Later 42rocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

Also consider if its a "false positive" from the cleaning equipment!
I recently switched from brass rod & tips to carbon fiber rod & alloy tips.
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pls note, that I did NOT get blue …
 
Wink
 
so no "false reading".
 
……………...
 
Of course, brass will give "copper indicators" - it contains ~ 90 % copper.
 
I still like brass, as brass CANNOT harm the bore. ( not more than "brass" at 1000 ft / sec )
 
Talking rods:
 
Steel can, steel with joints WILL, coated will collect dirt, and aluminium are the worst of all!
 
So I use brass.
 
Carbon may or may not be ok, I think, it will bend in the bore, and might collect dirt like coated rods.
 
Oh - and I wipe my rods every, or every second pass.
 
Hermann
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 03 2019 at 4:43pm
Let the Hoppes soak overnight.  You’ll be surprised how much better it works.  Hoppes did change the formula, but I believed they recently changed it back.  Sweets and Boretech Eliminator reacts with copper as a blue color on the patch, Hoppes will look more like green.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arminius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2019 at 3:12pm
Brushed it with a Dewey bronze brush, perhaps a dozen times. Not dry, but with lots of Break Free.
 
24 hrs later gunk came out, but gone with THREE patches!
 
I think the owner before me used some chemical Copper remover, I am now removing Carbon layers, and not much of that.
 
I´ll now consider it clean, and will start shooting it soon.
 
Hermann
 
P.S.: and will use up my Hoppe´s No 9, which may be that "castrated" one. And get Butch´s Bore Shine or new Hoppe´s No 9
 
 
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