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Ishapore Enfield 22LR No. 2 Mk IV Questions

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ironwood View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 14 2013 at 11:44pm
Hi all, I am new here and have a few questions about a rifle I have. I have two Enfields, a Jungle Carbine and an Ishapore trainer that has been converted to fire 22LR. My questions are about the Ishapore. I am wondering what the age of the rifle is and also what all of the marks mean. On the left wrist is "* * 502 w/s 1962" and under that is "1942". On the right wrist is "SHT • 22 IV*". It is in very good condition, all matching and the bore shines like a mirror. I have noticed that there is no marking on the right wrist above the SHT mark and was wondering why. Any additional information that anyone can provide is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2013 at 6:02am
That looks like a very interesting rifle. I am not an expert; but the rear sight shown in your picture is new to me. My No2 mkIV* (Lithgow) has the standard type SMLE sight; your version is in the position of the SMLE MkV but not the same. 
I hope someone that knows more about the Ishapore production can let us know
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2013 at 8:11am
it does appear to be a mkV receiver , since all of those were made at EFD in 1922-23-24 ill date that part to then even if the markings are scrubbed on the right wrist , it may or may not have been a complete mkV as some of the unused bits got used up in the wake of dunkirk making up mkIII*s , looks like that , might have been in 1942 , 

the shape of the rear sight base of the receiver wall is that of an early mkV , prior to the trials production pieces , which might account for the lack of wrist markings , 

most of the rest look to be mkIII* bits , safety , bayonet boss , fore end , cutoff is gone , cant tell what handguards are on it for certain but they look to be mkIII , is there a mkIII rear soight on it ? i think i see the protector , marking disc is gone and filled , all in keeping with it being built as a parts rifle or both the conversion , and ishapore FR , 

and its hard to say when it became the no2 trainer , could have went to india as that 
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Here a better photo of the rear sight.

is
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ironwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 15 2013 at 11:42pm
Anyone have any idea about the markings I asked about?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 1:47am
short 22 IV* is its current configuration , i can only guess on the 502 w/s 1962 as thinking it relates to the india service/FR ,  also guess on the GRI marking on the knox form as india property marks , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5thBatt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 2:31am
Originally posted by A square 10 A square 10 wrote:

it does appear to be a mkV receiver , since all of those were made at EFD in 1922-23-24 ill date that part to then even if the markings are scrubbed on the right wrist , it may or may not have been a complete mkV as some of the unused bits got used up in the wake of dunkirk making up mkIII*s , looks like that , might have been in 1942 , 

the shape of the rear sight base of the receiver wall is that of an early mkV , prior to the trials production pieces , which might account for the lack of wrist markings , 

most of the rest look to be mkIII* bits , safety , bayonet boss , fore end , cutoff is gone , cant tell what handguards are on it for certain but they look to be mkIII , is there a mkIII rear soight on it ? i think i see the protector , marking disc is gone and filled , all in keeping with it being built as a parts rifle or both the conversion , and ishapore FR , 

and its hard to say when it became the no2 trainer , could have went to india as that 
I just think its a No2 MkIV with modified sighting to resemble the No4, here's the thread from Gunboards.
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?341156-Ishapore-Enfield-22LR-No-2-Mk-IV-Questions  Vintovka's post with a link leads me to believe it's so, it could have been set up as a trainer for the MkV SMLE but most likely for the No4.
Cool rifle, would love one myself.
 
MkV

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ironwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 2:51am
Here is an additional photo of the rear sight mount.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 3:42am
Well, it seems to be a bit of a hybrid. The workmanship on the rear sight support looks good. In any case, it will be fun to shoot. The no4 type sight will be an advantage on the range. Do test various types of ammo in it though; as most Enfield .22's seem to have very personal tastes in ammo. Eley Team works well in my No2MkIV* but you will need to try many different makes, keep it sub sonic though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 4:54am
I'm far from the expert on this particular model, but I think I'm seeing something in a couple of the pics I'd like to comment on.

5th Batt's rifle seems to have an "extension" for lack of a better word, to the receiver rear that is designed to give an elevated point for the rear sight pivot.

Am I nutz, or is that "extension" a reworked part of a magazine cutoff plate?

Ironwood's is also "extended" but with a flat extension of some kind, indicating a build up with weld or something similar..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 6:16am
A very warm welcome to the site!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 6:23am
5th , i see what you are saying , your photo actually looks ;like an added bit , then in looking at ironwoods photo right after and relooking at the originals , it almost - almost appears that the high wall rear sight area could be welded/soldered on , id need to inspect a lot closer to confirm that , but i can almost make out what looks like the joint , 

it does however look very much like the first mkV recievers pre-production , except for the charger bridge is different so i am very inclined to agree with you and vontovka , 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lithgow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 16 2013 at 6:26am
No shamu, you are nutz
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