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Lithgow SMLE MkIII*

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DocAitch View Drop Down
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    Posted: March 02 2021 at 7:16pm
he!!o the forum
This is my first post, and I have a question.
I have a 1942 Lithgow SMLE MkIII* that is too good to be true. It has new wood and most of the metal appears to have re phosphated.
I remember reading about an outfit in New York that imported the Lithgow and “re furbished” them. The name of the importer as I vaguely recall, was “J J Jacobi” or something like that.
I would appreciate any information.
Thanks, 
DocAitch

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2021 at 9:14pm
looks nice , what is inscribed at the wood line of the receiver in the first photo ? my old eyes dont see all that well anymore but that looks abnormal , 

oh and welcome to the site , there are others more well versed in the lithgow that can answer better than i , ive never owned one [not for lack of trying] yours looks really nice 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Canuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2021 at 9:47pm
J.J Jovino?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marco1010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2021 at 10:04pm
1942 Lithgow would have been issued and used. if its in perfect condition you have to ask why ?
It could be that it has been refurbished as a factory through Repair or maybe after being sold out of service.  More photos please and i'm sure a few ideas will soon start to flow from the forum members.

The hard to see stamps just above the woodwork will be inspection stamps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DocAitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 02 2021 at 10:58pm
I agree that it is suspicious. 
The stamps above the wood work on the right rear od the receiver appear to be 6 pointed stars with a character in the center. There are at least 7. I am reluctant to pull the stock, don’t want to booger anything.
J J Jovino is the name. Thanks I don’t see an import stamp.
DocAitch.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Homer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Marco1010 Marco1010 wrote:

1942 Lithgow would have been issued and used. 

Not necessarily. Good numbers of unused Lithgows with 1942 dated actions survived into the 80’s and 90’s. 
But I’ve no idea the origins of this rifle. The forend looks more heavily sanded than an unmolested jivino build up. And before we start discussing recoil inserts, I’ll make the point many rifles with 1942 dated actions were assembled from factory without the inserts. 



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 8:12am
The first thing to remember is that JUST The "JJ & Co" stamp, which may be almost hidden, you have to really look. (Some were seen through the cutouts in the nosecap on the barrel, for example) isn't INSTANT DEATH. They had complete factory built rifles, all brand new & then they had mountains of parts which they "just flung flung together" to make more new rifles.
The stars on the receiver are a good thing. They indicate several factory inspectors passed whatever test they did during building.

Whats the serial number?
####A
That's a warning, most of the Jovino bitsters were numbered in this format.
E#####
or
F#####
seem to be mostly legit.

The (in)famous "recoil blocks" are not a reliable guide.
If they are there its a good thing (probably, a previous owner could well have fitted them), if they're NOT there it doesn't mean much as the factory had some with & some without.

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGonger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 8:43am
Originally posted by DocAitch DocAitch wrote:

I agree that it is suspicious. 
The stamps above the wood work on the right rear od the receiver appear to be 6 pointed stars with a character in the center. There are at least 7. I am reluctant to pull the stock, don’t want to booger anything.
J J Jovino is the name. Thanks I don’t see an import stamp.
DocAitch.

They are the 7 point (Lithgow) stars they run 1-10 and are numbered center of of star.
Is there by any chance a (PAA) number underneath the bolt handle? Can see two numbers underneath the bolt handle in your first photo but too blurry to make out correctly.
And by any chance another (PAA) rear of receiver right side where the bolt is inserted into the receiver.?
Cheer’s.
Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lyman1903 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 10:58am
Most that 've seen  were marked where the stars are J Jovino , 
and some marked like Shamu said, up on the barrel at the nosecap, 

also some marked J Jovino just under the charger bridge,,   not sure why the change, 


that being said, I have also run across some No 1 Mk III's that looked like the OP's, 
as in refinished to like new, 

no idea what company, if any did the refinish , or when,  

may just be the previous owner wanted it redone, 

I have No4T that is that way, 
guy bought a barreled action,  marked correctly, no scope, 
he put new repro wood on it, and a  new repro scope and mount, 

just cause he could


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 2:05pm
I guess those were the completed rifles that JJ&Co bought with the stars & the bitsters with the "JJ & Co" stamp instead?

Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 3:03pm
Ser. # and prefix will throw some answers to the question.


Welcome aboard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 3:50pm
agree with MJ11 , we need that serial number to tell more 

to the OP , taking it down will not hurt it , but remove the forstock first to prevent damage to the buttstock , it will give you the oportunity to inspect all the other markings closely as well as check condition of the concealed bits , 

again , i think you got a really nice looking rifle and i believe it will serve you well , most of what those from down under have given you would not make me concerned at all , but the questions asked - if answered should get you confirmations to the out standing questions you might have regarding its authenticity and provenance , enjoy your rifle we all enjoy a good puzzle here , thanks for sharing yours , 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MJ11 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 03 2021 at 6:03pm
Good posting and I will be waiting to see the prefix and ser.# when the OP has time.

In early 2020 I met an older, well he was almost my age, shooter with a Lithgow with a deep blue receiver and barrel finish and phosphate nose cap and bands similar to the rifle I posted. He had been using PPU ammo and had already shot two targets with a very good result. Told me he won it on an auction for just over $900 delivered. He was a bit reserved about the pricing but I felt the targets should relieve and doubts he had. I only recall it was also an E prefix and the stock had Tung oil shine to it.

After all the only interesting rifles are accurate rifles. He also had a very nice Finn 28/30 none D marked from the mid 1930s from the same seller. The range closed shorty after that time so I have never seen him again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 04 2021 at 7:04am
Remember if removing the forend to NOT "tilt it down" to lever it off. That will damage vital internal parts.
instead use a non marking hammer or wooden dowel to tap it off slowly alternating sides at the REAR of the wood. then pull free parallel to the bore axis.
If you would like a copy of the dismantling instructions please PM me, its too big for the board & so has to be e-mailed to a server that will take largish (2382Kb) files in .PDF format.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DocAitch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2021 at 9:01am
The first photo is the serial number. D prefix
The second is the base of the charger bridge- I can’t make it out but there might be two “J’s at the beginning.
The third is the receiver behind the charger bridge.
DocAitch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SGonger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 06 2021 at 11:27am
Originally posted by DocAitch DocAitch wrote:

The first photo is the serial number. D prefix
The second is the base of the charger bridge- I can’t make it out but there might be two “J’s at the beginning.
The third is the receiver behind the charger bridge.
DocAitch
The numbers in the third photo are PAA number’s;
PAA=Proof Action Assembly.
It’s a Lithgow policy on assembly to correctly match the bolt to the receiver head space etc etc,hopefully it will match the PAA numbers (located) underneath your bolt handle.
Cheer’s & hopefully good luck on the matching numbers.
Tidbit;not all imported Lithgow Mklll’s where matched up PAA wise correctly etc when reassembled.

Anyone seen the Tardis Box anywhere? 🤨
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