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Long Branch 69L Mk 1/3 gets a new Barrel |
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Canuck
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Donating Member Joined: January 17 2012 Location: Cochrane, AB Status: Online Points: 4021 |
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Posted: January 09 2024 at 8:45am |
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I am thinking that this excellent post should become a sticky?
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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually
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shiloh
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Joined: January 08 2019 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 3049 |
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Posted: January 09 2024 at 12:54pm |
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I`ll second that ![]() |
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Shamu
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Posted: January 09 2024 at 2:50pm |
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Stickum applied. ![]() |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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paddyofurniture
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Joined: December 26 2011 Location: NC Status: Offline Points: 7942 |
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Posted: January 09 2024 at 4:14pm |
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Very funny.
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Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts.
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Shamu
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Posted: January 09 2024 at 4:27pm |
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Thang yew, thang yer ferry much I'll be here all week.
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: January 11 2024 at 4:42pm |
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Got to the range today to break in the new Criterion barrel. It’s a tedious process, but pays dividends for the life of the barrel by being so much easier to clean. I’ve proven this to myself on 4 or 5 barrels now, comparing no break in to a full break in.
The process I use is: 1) Fire one shot and clean, repeat as many times as necessary until copper fouling begins to reduce. Typically 5 to 10 shots. 2) Fire three shot strings and clean, repeat two or three times until you see more reduction in copper fouling. 3) Fire five shot strings and clean, repeat two or three times until you see little fouling. 4) Fire 10 shot string and clean. Break in is done. I was able to do this today with 40 rounds. I cleaned with Bore Tech Eliminator, it is easy to tell if there is significant copper fouling as the patch turns blue. Dark blue is heavy fouling. The first patch comes out black and is the powder fouling, second patch (and third) will be blue. Once the third patch comes out with only light blue streaking, you know you’re close. I’ll need to tighten the barrel another 3 degrees. The first shot went left approx 7 minutes. This is the first time I’ve had that problem. On the five barrel installations I’ve done, the first shot has always been within a minute or two of center. Also, the elevation changed considerably, by 9 minutes (low). I don’t have an explanation for this. I’m going to measure the pressure at the forend barrel bearing (this rifle is center bedded at 5 inches forward of the chamber). ![]() Once I fiddled with the sights, it started to put rounds in the x ring (200 yards), so I think this barrel is going to shoot. This was the first 9 rounds, which I cleaned the bore between each shot with Eliminator. ![]() |
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A square 10
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Posted: January 11 2024 at 9:02pm |
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very nice , i take it you expect better down the road ?
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 6:42am |
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I now have the barrel re-indexed. It was indeed “off”. Not sure how. I set it back up in the barrel vice, this time used the top of the front sight protector to level the barrel.
![]() Then with a close fitting drill bit thru the rear sight axis pin ears the barrel was indeed under torqued, by about 2 to 3 degrees. Just one degree of under turn results in a 2 MOA lateral shift (to the left) in the MPI. ![]() Nipped up the action body a small amount at a time until the barrel and body were level. ![]() Now to test for groups… |
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DarioPirovano
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 7:31am |
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Good job Geoff
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A square 10
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 8:31am |
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wow thats a lot of deviation per degree , glad you were able to get it corrected ,
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Zed
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Posted: January 12 2024 at 9:28am |
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It's looking good Geoff.
Enjoying your thread and updates; looking forward to seeing how it shoots in competition.
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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: January 13 2024 at 1:53pm |
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Back to the range today. Cold front moved in last night, not the best conditions, but at least no rain.
Skies were clear. This range faces south, which is the worst direction for this time of year on a clear day. The sun shines right on the firing point, and in the winter, the sun is more to the south so shines in your face. The targets are in the shade. I’m finding these lighting conditions harder every year to get a good sight picture. I far prefer to shoot on a cloudy day. Tweaking the barrel indexing helped, but it still shoots a bit to the left. First five shots with the front sight centered. 200 yards prone in the sling. Held good waterline, about 1 MOA vertical spread. ![]() Adjusting the front sight and shot 10 rounds. I’ve zoomed into the 9 ring here for this photo. I called shot #5 to the right, that was all on me. Shot 8 and 9 was my attempt to hold slightly low as the previous 7 shots were grouping a bit high, over corrected. ![]() It looks like this barrel is going to shoot, five of these 10 shots are within 1/2 MOA. I’m going to widen the front sight by fixing .020 inch thick sheet brass to each side of the front sight blade with epoxy. I need all the help I can get, my vision is deteriorating. I found it nearly impossible to get a clear sight picture today. |
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Strangely Brown
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Posted: January 14 2024 at 4:49am |
We need to speak!
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Mick
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britrifles
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Posted: February 17 2024 at 7:30am |
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Update
I now have 225 rounds thru the new Criterion barrel. It’s not settling down, groups have been opening up. It will shoot perhaps 5 rounds just over 1 MOA, then throws fliers. Many times, the first shots out of a cold bore land 3 MOA high and left. Some groups are terrible, over 4 MOA. It’s not good enough for shooting the 200 yd vintage matches. Looking thru the 18 target plot sheets of ten shot groups, the best was 2.1 MOA. That is respectable shooting prone with the Mk 1 service sight, but not 4 to 5 MOA. It’s just inconsistent and not what I expect from a new barrel. It seems to “want to shoot” but something is just on the edge regarding bullet stability. I don’t know what the problem is. I suspect it might have been the chamber finish reamer. This extended the throat considerably resulting in a bullet jump to the lands of 0.305 inches (174 gr SMK seated to 3.05 inches OAL). The first thing I noticed with the barrel was the significant change in POI on the target. About 8 MOA low and 7 MOA left. I reindexed the barrel past vertical and still a lot of left drift on the foresight blade. Never had this kind of issue before with barrel replacement. Thinking the worst, that I had somehow distorted the action body removing the BSA barrel, I decided to remove the Criterion barrel and reinstall the old BSA barrel I had removed. This barrel has upwards of 10,000 rounds thru it and the borescope pictures look like it does. Indexing this barrel back to where it was by using a spirit level on the foresight block band and rear sight axis pin holes, my first shots on target were right where they should be. And it shot well for the first 5 shots. Groups did open up as expected, but it was nowhere near as bad as the new Criterion barrel, 2 to 3 MOA. First 5 shots just over 1 MOA. ![]() Three ten shot groups fired for score were 98-2x, 99-1X and 100-3x. About what it was shooting before I removed it, probably a bit better. Not what it once was, but after 10,000 rounds, that’s still pretty decent. I talked to Criterion about this and they sent me a new barrel free of charge. I’m impressed with their customer service. So, this next barrel will not get touched by the chamber reamer. It is supposed to be short chambered by 0.01 inches, but SAAMI specs for .303 British chamber are likely similar to military specs and these chambers are typically reamed long to account for wide dimensional tolerance in ammunition and mud/dirt in the battlefield. Well, I don’t intend to shoot this in the trenches nor load old military ammo that may be a bit long. I did check several Canadian Mk 7z rounds, and they drop freely into the chamber right to the base of the rim. I also checked the throat length with my Hornady OAL gage, a 174 gr SMK touches the lands at 3.098 inches (giving a jump of 0.048 inches when seated to 3.05 inches). A 2.225 inch long case drops into the rim freely, so the chamber is long enough “as is”. Borescope reveals nicely cut lands in the throat area, much nicer than what they looked like on the first Criterion barrel after finish reaming. So, I can’t see any reason to put a reamer in this barrel. I’ll install it as is, headspace it by picking an appropriate bolt head, and break this barrel in. Hoping for a much better result. |
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Doco Overboard
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Posted: February 17 2024 at 9:09am |
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One time I re-barreled a p14 with a CBI barrel and never used a finish reamer. Its a totally differing system to a No 4 but still 303, so I get it. Every, CBI barrel that was installed bar none has been supplied with a larger diameter throughout the entire contour so adjustments to the bedding were necessary when fitting. Ive re-barreled, Garands, Krags, M17-14's and both variants of the 06 Springfields. I think particularly with the rimmed cartridges, and this is true with the Krag barrels especially, because the pilot of the reamer where it enters the bore is such a larger diameter than what otherwise would be the throat and the diameter of the reamer that cuts the throat is smaller is where a certain amount of accuracy degradation occurs at least in that chamber and the tooling I have available to me. If I cut the chamber with a dummy cartridge as a gauge to where the bolt just closes but allows the cartridge to be easily extracted is where I notice the tipping off point is,so its close. If I finish for the cartridge to free itself of the chamber and to fall easily from it there is a big difference in potential loss for accuracy becuase of the additional space introduced by removing the additional chamber material not just from the throat but from the radial dimension of the chamber as well so my best estimate is there is an additive condition when finishing to the latter instead of the former. Another constant has always remained true for me and that is if it shoots left, needs more heft as the adage goes especially for Garands but evidently the rule can be applied to other systems as well based on your findings with the spirit level images you captured. Using that method has had me going more than one time and second guessing myself so what i did was save a fore sight protector that's in new shape, check with levels but then invert the whole thing for a no 4 upside down on a nice true piece of granite to gain some additional perspective based on what the levels and extractor slots are doing. A counter top maker usually will have some nice slabs available from the cut off pile that could be useful for that sort of thing for free often in an array of colors but I like the white or light grey pieces. Glad to hear they will be sending another barrel. I did a Krag carbine last week and the owner was able to source his but only after a long wait. |
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britrifles
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Posted: February 17 2024 at 10:54am |
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I thought perhaps the barrel contour was larger than the BSA, but it isn’t. I measured the diameter with calipers at several different lengths along the barrel, particularly at the forend bearing, and it is within .001 inches. I did plan on weighing the two barrels, must remember to do that when I remove the BSA barrel.
The barrel did headspace perfectly, 0.0640+ inches using the same bolt head. If it was too short even with a #0 bolt head, then I would have to ream it, but hopefully not necessary with this second CBI barrel (which I already have now). I have rebarreled two M1’s and windage was dead on center using a spirit level to index the barrel and front and rear sights set to mechanical zero. Not on this first CBI barrel…foresight blade was all the way to the left such that the right side of the base of the blade was flush with the front sight block band. Not a good sight picture. |
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