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“Missed it by that much”

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britrifles View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 20 2019 at 2:50pm
A nice shooting day here in the South East.  Try as I may, I could not hold 10 consecutive shots into the X ring of the NRA Short Range (SR) target at 200 yards.  Best I could do was 100-9x, 9 of 10 shots into the X ring.  Every time I had at least one pesky flier in the 10 ring. On one target, the shot in the 10 ring was a “10.9” meaning it was 9/10ths the way across the 10 ring, just on the edge of the x ring.  That was frustrating.  

Shooting prone unsupported with a sling and shooting coat. 

Rifle:  UF 56 No. 4 Mk 2, 7.62 NATO conversion with PH 5c aperture sight.  

Load:  150 and 168 gr SMK with 40.0 gr Varget.  

For those on the other side of the pond, the NRA SR target X ring is 3.0 inches in diameter, 1.5 MOA at 200 yards.

Goosic can do this with his eyes closed at 300 yards standing.  

I’m not giving up yet, I know that I am the limitation and not the rifle and load.  I’ll post a target pic when I get there.  Note I said “when” and not “if”!!  This is all a mental game.

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Honkytonk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2019 at 3:02pm
My brother-in-law was a nationally ranked (Canada) IPSC shooter for years. Travelled all over the world shooting. He always told me good marksmanship starts with mind control. You can have the best weapon and gear, but to be really successful it's between your brain,target and weapon. I always kinda laughed him off... lives in Calgary... drinks wine...
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2019 at 3:03pm
He’s right HT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2019 at 3:21pm
For those with 7.62 converted No. 4 rifles, you may be interested in this.  A 1969 article in the US NRA “The American Rifleman” by Maj E.G.B Reynolds.  A name all of us should know.  

The rifles described were fitted with a 4 lb heavy barrel manufactured at Enfield, soon to be used on the L39, Envoy and L42.  4 groove RH twist Enfield rifling.  

This is NOT the rifle I have.  My No. 4 is a predecessor.  A No. 4 service weight barrel (approx 2 lbs) that is chambered in 7.62 NATO and full military stocked forend.  No reinforcing strap on the receiver.  



This table is also from this 1969 article which gives grouping results with the heavy barrel with both Service ammunition and Norwegian ammunition known to be “match grade”.



Note that the 200 yard groups are about 1.5 MOA vertical and horizontal spreads with the Norwegian Raufoss ammunition.  British service ammunition being about 2.5 MOA.    C-C spacing can expected to be slightly larger.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shamu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2019 at 4:22pm
Still pretty good.
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2019 at 7:27pm
I am not understanding your frustrations britrifles. 
You have a proficiency with a Lee Enfield rifle that alot of folks should be jealous of.  You are putting bullets inside a four or five inch circle without the aide of a scope at 200 yards. I understand that in the sport of competitive shooting, every shot is counted and scored accordingly and those pesky fliers do not help the situation of achieving a perfect score. However, that being said.  Your skills with your chosen rifles are very commendable sir.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A square 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2019 at 8:23pm
im jealous , 
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britrifles View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 5:37am
Thank you for the kind words.

 I realize the goal of shooting a “perfect” score (all 10 shots within the x ring) doesn’t have any real significance.  I don’t know if it has ever been done in the CMP Games Matches (M1, 1903 Springfield, Vintage Military and Modern Military Matches).  I’ve not seen it looking thru the National Match results that are published online, but could have been done at one of the many CMP sanctioned events that are held around the country every year.  

It’s surprising how few competitors shoot a “clean” score, meaning all 10 shots within the 7 inch 10 ring at 200 yards in prone slow fire.  At the 2019 Camp Perry Nationals, of a total of 1610 competitors entered in the M1, Springfield and Vintage Military Matches.  26 competitors scored 100 in Prone slow, under 2% of the shooters.  And, the competitors who won the M1 and Springfield Match shot a 99 in Prone slow.  The highest score was 100-7x.  Goes to show that these events are not won in prone slow, they are typically won in the Standing stage.  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 8:01am
For me, in deer hunting, by far the most difficult shot is standing freehand. Even if the deer is not moving. For some reason if always had pretty good luck at running deer. That being said, I will rarely, rarely take a shot at a running deer. We don't drive deer, chose to sit and wait. I always "prep" my nest and shooting lanes ensuring I usually have a tree or a fence post to rest on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 8:03am
My point being, both you gentlemen must be in the top 5% of the best shooters judging by your posts and pics. I say, "Spot on!"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 8:22am
HT, no doubt, the Standing position is the most challenging.  In competition, there is a significant advantage with using a shooting coat in the Standing position.  Horribly hot and uncomfortable in the summer.  But it provides a lot of support and reduces the amount of movement of your upper body.  Takes a lot of practice to get good at it.  

For me, it’s the challenge of shooting a WWII Service rifle to its full potential.  Lee Enfields are not really noticed here in the US.  Most competitors will go for the M1917 Enfield, Mauser, or Swiss K31 in the Vintage Military Match.  A 100-10x 200 yard score with a No. 4 LE will get noticed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goosic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 8:36am
I have an acquaintance at the range who has a rifle that no longer looks like a rifle. It looks like scaffolding with a scope and so far,he has invested just over$10,000.00 USD into it. His biggest issue is that he cannot get it to group consistently at 200 yards. I asked him if his handloads might be the source of his frustration.  He said no. I asked if the scope was adjusted correctly.  He said yes. I asked if I could see his target after his group was established.  He said yes, reluctantly. His caliber of choice is the 6.5 Grendel.  Nine of the ten shots are inside a 1" circle. The tenth shot is just touching the outer edge of  the circle. I put my thumb over his group,covered it up and told him I do not see an issue at all. All I see is a man who just shot my thumb off from 200 yards. Practice makes perfect, to a degree.  You will always have good days and you will always have bad days. Do not get yourself hung up on your bad day shooting, chasing that perfect score. Commend yourself on what you are capable of doing even it means shaking the hand if the guy who had a good day and is taking home what should have been,your trophy. The Lee Enfield rifle was designed to do one thing and one thing only, kill a human. It was never intended to be a tack driving target killer. You have a talent of making your Enfield do just that though.  Everytime you finish a target,put your hand over it and trace the outline of your hand over your group or take the target and place it over your chest. That is what you are capable of doing...🤠...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 11:23am
Simon,
 
Can you tell me the actual size of this target, and diameter of the black?
7 inch ten ring sounds Possibly the same as the Concours International target, but not sure.
 
I think to wring what you have wrung from the L-E is a grand accomplishment!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 2:10pm
Richard, 

The NRA Short Range target is used at 200 and 300 yards, identical sized scoring rings except the SR-3 has the 8, 9 and 10 rings in black when posted at 300 yards.  At 200, the 9 and 10 are in black and measure 13 and 7 inches in diameter respectively.  The X ring is 3 inches in diameter.  So, this gives a 6.5 MOA black aiming mark at 200 yards and a 1.5 MOA X ring.  I’ve been trying to get 10 sequential shots into the X ring shooting prone with sling and aperture sight. 

Goosic,

What you said is of course correct.  The LE was designed as a service weapon and not designed as a target or match rifle.  For over 100 years, service rifle matches has been a means to promote marksmanship and develop competence with the nations Service Rifle.  The matches are quite competitive, just like how two sailboats out on the water in close proximity becomes a race.  Hard to resist.  In my case, I’m competing with myself to improve my shooting skill and find the true potential of this rifle as it was used in SR(b) DCRA and Bisley meetings in the 1960s prior to the change in rules that allowed heavy barrels and commercial match rifles.  If nothing else, it gets me out of the house!  




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pukka Bundook Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 21 2019 at 8:29pm
Thank you Simon,
 
I did get time to look it up, and it is as you say.
 
I am really Itching to try this target!   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 22 2019 at 5:21am
There is a version of the NRA SR target reduced (scaled down) for 100 yards; SR-1. 




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