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DarioPirovano 
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Joined: May 20 2023 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 219 |
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 Posted: February 08 2024 at 9:15am |
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I hope so.. is coming next week
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Mayhem
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Joined: February 06 2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 335 |
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Posted: February 08 2024 at 8:13pm |
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My Teslong borescope arrived on Wednesday and I wish I had not purchased it now. The only difference I could see between my barrel and a copper pipe, was the rifling in my barrel. Looking on the bright side, the value of copper in my barrel is certainly more than the $75 I paid for it!
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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Shamu
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Logo Designer / Donating Member Joined: April 25 2007 Location: MD, USA. Status: Offline Points: 20510 |
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Posted: February 09 2024 at 6:07pm |
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I'm sorry, why? What didn't it do that you wanted? |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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shiloh
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Joined: January 08 2019 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 3049 |
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Posted: February 10 2024 at 6:18am |
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So reading this thread with great interest, I used the described technique on my Martini. In lieu of JB paste, I used some fine grit valve lapping compound I had on hand. Oil soaked patched the barrel, then proceeded with compound soaked patch wrapped around the brush, 10 strokes, then cleaned with oil soaked patches. The bore is now in like new condition based on what I can see with a bore light. When I got the rifle the bore was clean but very dark. I did use my copper/carbon remover goop. Only got a hint of blue on the patches(solvent left in over night), So little or no fouling in that respect. Very strong shiny rifling with no pitting. Next I`ll swage the bore with a plug of soft lead to see what size the bore is.
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Shamu
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Posted: February 10 2024 at 2:08pm |
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Valve compound is much harder than JB. That stuff is formulated to be harder than copper but softer than steel. Valve grinding compound is designed specifically to be harder than steel. This is the muzzle of my .22 tube after just a few seconds of turning a brass bolt coated with valve grinding compound with a slow speed electric screwdriver., to make a new repaired crown. BEFORE:   |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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shiloh
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Joined: January 08 2019 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 3049 |
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Posted: February 11 2024 at 5:03am |
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ya I know this, been building engines for as long As I can remember. I was in no way overly aggressive and it did what I wanted it to do. I swaged before and after, both results were .3085ish. So the 10 strokes, in and out 5 times did the trick. Bright shiny bore with sharp rifling and no noticeable pitting as viewed using a bore light. Should probably get a bore scope, seems all the rage these days.
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Mayhem
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Joined: February 06 2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 335 |
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Posted: February 11 2024 at 3:50pm |
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@Shamu - my post was tongue in cheek. I love the scope but was shocked by what I saw. There was some serious copper fouling and at one point, the only indication that I was looking inside a rifle barrel and not a copper tube, was the rifling
 Someone had given me a bottle of Sweet's 7.62 Solvent and I tried that. Essentially, you soak a patch and then scrub the bore for 60 seconds before dry patching. I was amazed at the difference, with almost all of the copper removed. I did a second clean and then oiled and put the rifle away, as I was running short on time. I'm going to scope the bore tonight and then I'll post the before and after pictures.
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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britrifles
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Joined: February 03 2018 Location: Georgia, USA Status: Offline Points: 8404 |
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Posted: February 11 2024 at 5:42pm |
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Sweets is fairly effective, I used it for many years. It doesn’t really remove powder fouling, and it’s a strong ammonia based solvent and you should not leave it in the bore very long. My old routine was to clean with Hoppes 9, dry out the bore, then Clean with Sweets, dry that out, then Hoppes again. A badly fouled barrel needs this routine repeated multiple times as the powder/carbon/copper was in layers.
Bore Tech Eliminator has made removing copper much more effective and much easier, it’s a combined solvent, will remove powder fouling, copper and most of the carbon. You will see however that the carbon does tend to gradually built up over time, so that’s when I use the JB, particularly for the first 6 to 8 inches of the bore from the breech end. There is an old joke about bore scopes. Some say you’re better off not knowing how bad your barrels are, because then you’ll just worry about them not shooting well. I never quite bought into that, I did learn that you can’t tell the condition just by looking down the bore with a light at the other end. All my No. 4 rifles have some degree of pitting, usually mid way down the barrel. Some worse than others. Except the new Criterion barrel of course. However, none of the new barrels I’ve installed in numerous rifles over the years has ever developed pits, because I won’t put them away fouled. A borescope inspection and proper cleaning ensures that. |
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slowindown
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Joined: January 16 2024 Location: MS, USA Status: Offline Points: 108 |
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Posted: February 11 2024 at 8:25pm |
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I noticed copper build up in my new No. 4 since I got it. I worked on it awhile with hoppes no 9, then hoppes elite cleaner. There’s still copper I can see in the bore at the muzzle (and I’m sure throughout). I could tell from the patches that I removed a good bit though. I didn’t have anything just for copper. So guess I need to get something.
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Mayhem
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Joined: February 06 2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 335 |
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Posted: February 12 2024 at 4:28pm |
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Before:
 After two one-minute scrubs with Hoppe's in between. This is in the same section of the copper pipe (err barrel) as the previous picture:  Closer to the throat.  A bit more work to do but the results are promising. As britrifles said, stripping back one layer reveals more. The Boretech stuff is really expensive here and I know a number of gunsmiths are using Helmar, which is about 1/4 of the price. I didn't want to rush out and by new products until I knew what my bores were like and also how the products I have on hand performed.
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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slowindown
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Posted: February 12 2024 at 4:49pm |
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I’m afraid if I get a bore scope, I’ll spend all of my spare time cleaning.
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britrifles
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Posted: February 12 2024 at 4:59pm |
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Mayhem, was this using Sweets? And using Hoppes between two applications of Sweets? If so, that was my old routine. Finally, leaving the bore wet with Hoppes and storing rifle muzzle down with a wad of paper towel under the muzzle.
On a new barrel, breaking it in cleaning between each shot with Sweets and Hoppes will significantly help reduce fouling and be easier to clean. I wished I had known that before I had already shot thousands of rounds thru my Fulton No. 4 with the then new BSA match barrel. You can see in your photos that a layer of carbon remains, that’s the gray colour. The Sweets and Hoppes won’t remove it but JB will. And under that carbon can be more layers… I do think that Eliminator is the single most effective solvent I’ve tried, but even that doesn’t take out all the carbon. I like that it can’t hurt the steel, you can leave it in the barrel. It is water soluble. But, don’t let it get on the stock, it will remove the finish. |
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Shamu
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Posted: February 12 2024 at 5:44pm |
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Hoppes "elite" is a tweaked version of M-Pro-7s copper solvent/remover. Try this, its non corrosive & zero ammonia. Swab liberally with the elite, I use 3~4 patches of it, 2 passes each patch. NO brushing. Stand muzzle down overnight. Patch out with dry patches. Swab out with with Hoppes No9. Repeat till you get clean patches. (it may take several days the first time round). |
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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Mayhem
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Joined: February 06 2016 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 335 |
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Posted: February 12 2024 at 6:15pm |
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britrifles - yes. Between taking the initial picture, I have run Hoppes, patched out, one-minute of working a wet Sweet's patch full length, patching out and then leaving Hoppes in the bore for 24 hours (give or take).
I was also given some of the Hoppes foaming bore cleaner and so I had been trying that as well whilst I was cleaning prior to getting the borescope. Fill the barrel with foam and then leave for a while before scrubbing with a nylon brush and patching out. The patches came out black after that and then got progressively lighter. I agree with previous comments about opening up Pandora's box by getting a borescope but until you can see what you have, you are just pushing stuff through the barrel aimlessly. Now that I can see copper and carbon, I can target those. I also will have a baseline to work from and I want to get to know what works now, before I buy a new barrel in the future (for this or my other rifles). Here 4oz (118ml) of Bore Tech carbon remover will cost about $40 AUD. 125ml of Helmar HD carbon remover will set me back $9 AUD and 500ml (16.9oz) costs $18 AUD. For that price, I am going to give it a go. Their copper remover is priced the same. |
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.303 - Helping Englishmen express their feelings since 1889
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Shamu
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Posted: February 12 2024 at 7:27pm |
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Knowledge is power, even if it is scary as he!! when you see it magnified 50X or so!
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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)
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britrifles
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Posted: February 13 2024 at 8:54am |
Crazy the price difference. Here in the US, the 16 oz bottle of Eliminator runs about $32. 16 oz lasts quite a long time, so not a significant cost. Took a look for the Helmar bore cleaner, doesn't appear to be available in the US. I wonder if it is essentially the same composition as Eliminator. |
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Mayhem wrote: