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Mayhem View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mayhem Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2024 at 4:09pm
It shows that when you import something everyone involved adds a little to the price.  
No idea on the composition but will let you know when I get some.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2024 at 4:35am
UPDATE AND WARNING

Since I wrote this post, I’ve come across several articles on cleaning bores with JB. Frank Green of Bartlein Barrels posted some photos of a bore that was apparently deeply grooved by cleaning it with a bronze brush and JB applied to a patch wrapped around the brush. The lands looked pretty bad. Perhaps a steel brush was used? 

I’ve used this cleaning method for some time now on multiple rifle barrels to no ill effect, but I want to pass this new information on. I suspect the key is the use of a worn bronze brush to minimize the pressure the bristles put on the lands. And don’t brush more than necessary, 5 to 10 strokes then check the bore. 

My advice is to use a borescope to watch progress and don’t get overly aggressive with it. Watch for any signs of scratching/grooves on the lands.  I clean with JB about every 500 rounds. 

Next time I clean the bore with JB on my Service Rifle, I’m going to try a tight fitting patch on a PH style jag and borescope to see how effective it is. This is the method that Frank recommends. 

There is a lot of controversy in using brushes (even nylon) in rifle bores from barrel makers. Some say never do it. Some say it can’t harm the barrel, even a bronze brush. But perhaps JB and aggressively scrubbed with a bronze brush could cause this damage. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2024 at 5:20am
Geoff, thanks for the update.

I spoke to an Aussie friend the other day who old me that some Aussie target shooters use Autosolv on their barrels. 
Autosolv has been sold in the UK for years mainly for motorcycle enthusiasts to keep their engines shiny...this is not a recommendation by the way, rather a sharing of information.

Given the price difference of JB paste versus Autosolv in the UK I can quite see why people have experimented with other products. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2024 at 6:48am
Mick, I remember the Autosolv, my Dad used it to polish the aluminum alloy crankcase, gearbox and wheel rims on the Velocette.  

I've heard stories of people attaching an electric drill to a section of cleaning rod with brush attached to try and get the carbon out!  That would not end well.  

I had just finished cleaning both my AR's with JB on patch wrapped around the worn bronze brush, so won't need to clean again with JB for several months.  I've shot the AR twice since then, and it still hammers.  Its soaking right now with Hoppes 9 in the bore (my routine cleaning method), once I dry that out I plan to go borescope it again and look very closely for any signs of scratching/grooves on the lands.  I'll also check the bore with pin gages and measure throat length.  This barrel has been cleaned with JB with bronze brush/patch at least 5 times now.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarioPirovano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2024 at 7:54am
Thanks Geoff.
I only use a hard nylon brush with oil for cleaning after the solvent patches, I always believed that oil could prevent scratching the bore.
For the jb polishing I do it with VFG pellets and correct adapter, I experimented also with a spiral jag with a tight fitted cotton cloth very tight in the bore for the bore bright treatment with excellent result, I suggest you to try
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 05 2024 at 8:46am
Originally posted by DarioPirovano DarioPirovano wrote:

Thanks Geoff.
For the jb polishing I do it with VFG pellets and correct adapter,

This! 
Although I found the VFG adapter a bit of a fiddle with the small nut; the Brownells adapter on the other hand is slightly thicker and I believe it did a better job giving slightly more friction on the bore. 
Mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moosm14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2024 at 4:44pm
Goeff,

I assume the old armorer’s tale of JB causing wear is erroneous?
I was lectured that JB is as abrasive as a lapping compound and can damage a bore by rounding off the edges of the rifling?  I imagine it’s use is common sensical that a little goes a long ways and not to over do it?      

Is it safe for a chrome lined barrel and chamber?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2024 at 5:55am
Joe, I can’t say for sure. But, I’ve not seen any damage via bore scope nor any detrimental effects on accuracy over many times cleaning with JB. 

I think there would be less chance of rounding the corners of the rifling by using a PH type jag vs a brush. What I liked about the bronze brush is it cleaned the grooves too, and all the carbon trapped into the corners of the grooves.

Chrome is harder than normal barrel steel, so should not be as susceptible to wear. 

I measured the bore on my AR Service Rifle and could not detect any wear. 0.2180+ pin gage just fit with no play. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2024 at 6:45am
The one thing this thread (and others) have done is remind me what a poor cleaning regime we had in the British army back in the 60's & 70's.
Removing copper was unheard of then and apart from oil we had no other type of wet cleaner to dislodge carbon deposits. 
Hot water was occasionally used in training after firing blanks... but only occasionally.

I shudder at the thought of the state of my barrel handing it back into the armoury all those years ago! 
Mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 09 2024 at 7:01pm
An old post, but wanted to add some new information. 

After reading Frank Green’s (from Bartlein Barrels) article on cleaning the bore with JB on a patch wrapped around a bronze brush causing severe damage in the form of deep grooves/scratches, I decided to back off cleaning with JB for a while.  Looking thru the log book, I found that it had been over 1000 rounds since I last cleaned the carbon out of the Bartlein barrel on my AR Service Rifle.

Following the November Talladega 600 Matches, I thought it was time for a deep cleaning on the AR. I had only done what I call “routine cleaning” after every shoot over the past 1000 rounds (6 months of shooting this rifle).  That is patching out the bore with Hoppes 9, let it soak 12 hours, then wipe again with Hoppes 9 and repeat for a few days.  This time, I followed Frank’s recommendation to use a PH style jag with JB on a patch. I use an 1.5x3 inch patched wrapped around the jag. About 20 strokes in the throat and first 8 inches of bore forward of the chamber. That removed about 90% of the dark hard carbon based on borescope images.  

I did this cleaning the week before the final EIC Service Rifle Match of the year that I’ve recently posted on. But, I knew enough to “never come to a match with a clean barrel”.  Now, that doesn’t mean show up with a fouled barrel either. It means don’t show up with a squeaky clean bore from using JB when you haven’t used it for six months and 1000 rounds!  Now I know why…

So, I took the rifle to the Talladega range last Friday, the day before the match, to make sure I had solid zero’s for the EIC Match (which allows NO SIGHTERS). To my surprise, the zero’s were off, by 1 MOA at short range and 2 MOA at 600 yds.  The muzzle velocities were also lower, by 80 fps for my 600 yard load. I would not have won that match on Saturday if I had not found this out on Friday. 

So what happened? 

At first, I thought it was the cold weather, it was 34 deg F that morning.  But N135 and N140 is supposed to be quite temp stable.  It then occurred to me it must have been hard carbon building up in the throat and first few inches of rifling that was providing a tighter gas seal around the bullet. The result was a gradual increase in muzzle velocity over time that was not detected. This theory explains why my elevation settings had been gradually coming down over the last 6 months, I had to reset the elevation turret a few times back to “0” index at 200 yards.  Then with the carbon cleaned out, the muzzle velocities dropped and elevation settings had to go back up to compensate. 

We don’t normally get more velocity without also increasing pressure, but I doubt an 80 fps increase in velocity is creating dangerous chamber pressures unless the load was at max to begin with, and that was not the case.

So, I’m now going back to cleaning the throat with JB about every 300-400 rounds, and watch for any change in 600 yard elevation zero. But, it will be on a patch wrapped around a Parker Hale jag (at 90 degrees to the jag, not diagonally and not on a bronze brush. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Honkytonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 8:22am
And yet the venerable Lee Enfield still lives on! For the average "Joe" like myself, that old army way sounds pretty good! My cleaning routine is dry patch prior to hunting season or range visit. Patch and solvent after range (or at the end of hunting season) until patch is clean, then a light coating of oil with a patch until next use. I suspect a big percentage of all shooters and hunters have never even cleaned their bores. That's how it is around my neck of the woods anyways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote britrifles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 10:02am
For those who might only shoot a few rounds a year, this is not anything to worry about.  There are those who don't ever clean a barrel (which I don't recommend doing, especially in climates/homes with humidity above 40%, unless you don't care if the bore gets badly pitted/corroded).   And don't clean after shooting surplus corrosively primed ammo?  Well, that's a mistake you only make once.  

At the other extreme are the bench rest shooters who clean after every round with bronze brushes.  And they junk a barrel after a few hundred rounds max (no wonder).   All depends on what level of accuracy and repeatability you are looking for.  

Barrel cleaning is one of those things that if you ask 10 experienced shooters, you get 20 different answers.  Then six months later, another 20 different answers!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 1:08pm
In WWI my PaPere told me the way people cleaned a Enfield bore was to use a metal funnel, fill up the funnel with piss, next lots of hot water, and then oil the bore.

He said it worked every time. I guess the ammonia in piss neutralize the corrosive powder remains. 

I next asked how to you clean artillery?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strangely Brown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

I next asked how to you clean artillery?

With great difficulty using that method! 
Mick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paddyofurniture Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 1:35pm
Must be a group effort with the horse helping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoadie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 10 2024 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by paddyofurniture paddyofurniture wrote:

In WWI my PaPere told me the way people cleaned a Enfield bore was to use a metal funnel, fill up the funnel with piss, next lots of hot water, and then oil the bore.

He said it worked every time. I guess the ammonia in piss neutralize the corrosive powder remains. 

I next asked how to you clean artillery?



You asked yer "PaPere" in WWI???
WOW! Your older than we thought!!
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