Mkiii with ishapore 2a1 internals
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Ishapore Enfields
Forum Description: Let's see those Indian Enfields!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10705
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 7:18pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Mkiii with ishapore 2a1 internals
Posted By: Squirrely
Subject: Mkiii with ishapore 2a1 internals
Date Posted: July 06 2020 at 7:51pm
| can anyone tell me roughly what an mk3 with ishapore internals is worth? I’ve got one with a 1907 bayonet that was put into service in 1916. I’m looking to possibly sell them together as ive hit a rough patch and needing the money. Any help would be appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 6:53am
| The internals won't affect value at all. It's all about overall condition, functionality and bore. Certain makers may get a slight premium but not always. Internal parts have been swapped around over the years to keep them functional and as long as it's properly functional those internals won't make a difference. |
Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 8:03am
| hmm, ok. As far as I’m concerned the functionality is at 100% if not then it’s very close. There’s no pitting in the bore, the assignment number is still clear as day. |
Posted By: Whitjr
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:19am
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welcome to the forum from NC, Post some photos? ------------- |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:38am
Squirrely. If you truly want a fairly solidified estimate, you will need to first, supply us with some photos of your rifle to better establish an overall condition. Price also depends on location and what someone is willing to pay for your items.
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Squirrely wrote:Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:45am
Is the rifle complete? Does it still retain all the furniture it left the factory with? What is the condition of the wood,the metal finish? Does the serial number on the barrel, match the serial number on the receiver,and do those numbers match the serial number on the bolt? Is there any distinguishing marks on the metal or wood or both that would possibly affect the cost? These are just a few questions that need an answer for us to give you a rough estimate. Pictures of the rifle as whole and pictures of every angle including every inspectors stamps, cyphers,and marks go a very long way in helping you receive an answer...
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Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 12:46pm
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Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 12:47pm
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Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 12:48pm
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Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 12:57pm
| Does it say RFI on the buttsocket with 1965 underneath the RFI? |
Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 1:02pm
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Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 1:04pm
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yes it does, too to bottom it reads: (some form of stamp) Rifle 7.62mm 2a1 R.F.I. 1965
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Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 1:05pm
| That is not a No1Mk111/* It is a 2A/2A1 7.62mm Ishapore made at the Wah Cannt factory in Pakistan. The No1 and the 2A/1 are two separate entities. Yours pictured could garner between 350-550 USD depending on who is willing to pay what you decide to offer. The bayonet I have seen listed as low as 50 bucks and as high as 250.00 |
Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 1:06pm
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Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 1:53pm
| Yeah, that is just a straight up Ishapore 2A1 in 7.62x51 NATO. They were never .303's, they were purpose built to handle the NATO rounds. Yours looks fairly decent but that chunk of wood missing on the right just behind the charger bridge my give some people pause. Indian rifles are seen with that issue so it's not huge. These have been going for $450 to $550 in my area. |
Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:19pm
| yeah, I knew that these were purpose built internals, I just wasn’t sure exactly how much they were worth, I’ve put a few rounds through this and it’s still really accurate and functions like it should |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:26pm
I think there may be a little confusion here, the Enfield 2A was built by the RFI (Rifle Factory Ishapore) which is in India and has been supplying munitions since 1787. The POF (Pakistan Ordnance Factory) is in Wah Cannt which is in Pakistan Separate companies and very separate countries, who spent many, many years of heavy fighting over the borders from 1947 until a ceasefire in 2003
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Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:45pm
| Yes. I misremembered and thank you for the clarification. |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 3:29pm
Could you indulge me by explaining your referencing,"Internals" please?
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Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 6:35am
| I am curious on that as well. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 6:47am
| to add to what was said concerning the two different factories , IIRC ishapore made the ni1 style rifle and pakistan made the no4 style , but i never came across a POF rifle to actually inspect it closely , |
Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 7:09am
| Yes, you are correct. Pakistan bought the tooling and machinery from the BSA Shirley plant and made No 4 rifles. The Indians only ever made the No 1 style of rifle. They refurbished others but only manufactured the No 1 style. |
Posted By: Whitjr
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 9:59am
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is there abig difference in quality from the India made as compared to the Pakastani made? Maybe that’s just splitting hairs...
‘Course then there’s the question about quality of those rifles when compared with BSA made.... (I just couldn’t help myself...) ------------- |
Posted By: Squirrely
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:08am
| when I say internals I’m referencing the bolt, carrier/receiver, and barrel, so essentially it’s all the metal functioning parts, not including the body/furniture. |
Posted By: The Armourer
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 11:44am
It is a bit like comparing oranges with bananas Pakistan did not make No1 rifles and India did not make the No4. The No4 production in Pakistan came from BSA (as Bear said) because the contract that BSA had with the MoD was that they must retain the manufacturing capacity on a 'care & maintenance' basis for 10 years after the last date of production, so, in 1955 it was old onto the highest bidder (Pakistan) The PoF No4 rifles are good quality and shoot well. The Indian No1 rifles that were initially sold off were all well built, and in fair condition, but, as the years have gone by the quality of the No1 Mk3 has gone down and they are now selling pretty much shot out rifles. Ishapore started manufacturing the LE Mk1 in 1906 and changed over to No1 Mk3 in 1910, they manufactured all the way thru the two World Wars. The 1950 onwards rifles (after India was given independence and they changed the steel spec) were not 'up-to-spec' and the proof testing was 'amended' but the specification was not. It was a bit of a 'fudge'
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:02pm
| i agree with that - i think both initially produced good quality on "used equipment" but as years go by and equipment has aged and they no longer have british support .....im not going to say it has remained that way past the late 60s , but then im not sure what support or internal QC and retooling might be happening , i think both counties have advanced beyond the enield with whatever 'support' from foreign countries over the last 40 years , |