Print Page | Close Window

RN vs Spitzer

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Hunting with the .303 British cartridge.
Forum Description: Share your hunting stories with the rest of us.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10814
Printed Date: November 28 2021 at 7:14pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: RN vs Spitzer
Posted By: Honkytonk
Subject: RN vs Spitzer
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 6:13am
I've been reading about RN vs Spitzer. It seems that the Spitzer starts to outperform the RN after about 200 yds. As the range I go to is only 100 yds, would I see a huge difference in accuracy between a 180 gr Sierra Spitzer and a 174 gr Hornady RN at this distance? My typical distance while hunting is less than 200 yds. Thanks!



Replies:
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 8:09am
My opinion is that any rifle firing your typical hunting round will have,within reason, similar ballistic characteristics and perform as such out to 100 yards with little to no marked differences be it a round nose bullet or one with a point. 


Posted By: Bear43
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 8:14am
I'm with Goosic. At 100 yards I have never seen much difference in performance either way so long as the bullets are close in weight. It's the longer ranges that show the differences.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 10:18am
If you are hunting; it's probably better to choose which ammunition will drop the animal quickly with minimum damage to the meat. I think that the accuracy at your hunting ranges would be less important; providing the ammunition will hold a reasonable group from the rifle concerned.

-------------
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 11:30am
HT, since you are loading up your own ammo, try both bullets at 100 yards, if you get acceptable accuracy from both then you can pick the bullet type you prefer.   

Make a note of the scope zero settings for both types of bullets at 100 yards.   Since you would rarely shoot beyond 200 yards, you can set the scope elevation to give bullet impact about 1 to 2 inches high at 100 yards.  That will get you close enough for anything out to 200 yards.  We can run the numbers in my ballistics program if you want to be more precise, just need to know the height of the scope above the bore, the bullet you are using and expected muzzle velocity of your load. 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 12:03pm
2.100" above center of bore.
168grn BTHP  .308 diameter 
2685 fps chronographed

...aaannd go!...


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 12:16pm
Approx 1.7 inches high at 100 yards for a 200 yard zero.  But need to look up the actual BC for this bullet, a SMK or Hornady Match or something else?




Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 12:26pm
Sierra 168grn HPBT  #2200C
Ballistic Coefficient  .462


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 1:06pm
1.67 inches high at 100 yards for a 200 yard zero. 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 1:11pm
sorry, that’s 1.67 MOA.  It’s 1.75 inches high.  



Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 1:46pm
Sorry to state the obvious but thats a target, not a hunting bullet! Sierra specifically says to not use them for hunting but instead use the 165Gr GameKing HPBT.
Oddly my 7.62 prefers that over the MatchKing, or anything else, so its a win-win situation.


-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 3:39pm
Shamu, I think Gossic was asking about the trajectory of his 7.62 target load, not for hunting.  HT is talking about .303 loads with the 180 pro-hunter soft point for hunting.  


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 01 2020 at 4:09pm
I have a table reserved for tomorrow morning and I intend to see just how accurate I can be with the fully stocked No4 7.62mm. 


Posted By: 303 Hunter
Date Posted: September 02 2020 at 7:14am
The most accurate one will be which ever one your rifle likes best.
At one hundred yards the only place you might see any different between the two is in the terminal ballistics. Round nose bullets transfer their energy quicker but you probably won’t see that much of a difference in a 31 caliber. But as you noted a spitzer will carry its velocity and therefore energy down range better than a round nose.
The other thing to consider is how much impact velocity the bullets need too reliably perform. The Pro-Hunter is a stouter bullet then the Intr-lock and should be driven faster to provide optimum performance, with impact velocities ideally above 2200 fps or so.

-------------
The Lee Enfield is to the Canadian north what the Winchester repeater was to the American west.   Cal Bablitz


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: September 02 2020 at 8:21am
Thanks a bunch for all the info! Very useful. I'm a hunter first and foremost. I use our local range for load development, scope alignment and keeping what limited shooting skills I have kinda "sharpish" for the hunting season. I've become very interested in round nose bullets of larger grains driven at modest speeds for my Lee Enfields that prefer 180's over 150 gr. I've loaded up some RN's and will begin shooting these rifles at the range next week and begin to compare grouping performance. Thanks again!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 02 2020 at 3:09pm
That Sierra 180 gr ProHunter flat base spritzer bullet has never shot well from several of my No. 4 rifles, strings rounds vertical. Perhaps it’s more sensitive to barrel harmonics and you need to find the velocity it likes.  Most of my 10 shot groups at 100 yards were spread vertically about 4 inches, lateral spread was reasonable, 1.5 inches approx IIRC.

4 inch groups at 100 yards may be acceptable for short range hunting, but probably not at 300 and beyond if your looking for good shot placement.




Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: September 03 2020 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

Thanks a bunch for all the info! Very useful. I'm a hunter first and foremost. I use our local range for load development, scope alignment and keeping what limited shooting skills I have kinda "sharpish" for the hunting season. I've become very interested in round nose bullets of larger grains driven at modest speeds for my Lee Enfields that prefer 180's over 150 gr. I've loaded up some RN's and will begin shooting these rifles at the range next week and begin to compare grouping performance. Thanks again!
 
I have a couple of handloads using the 215grn RN Woodleigh if and when you would be interested in that. 


Posted By: Pukka Bundook
Date Posted: September 04 2020 at 5:23am
Goosic,
 
My old Ishapore loves the 215 grain. I had to put on a taller front sight to bring it down a bit.  It shoots with that bullet and open sights about 1.7" high at 100 yards, and at 200 yards on the 200 yard setting it shoots 2.8" high.
This rifle and load has collected a whole pile of elk and deer, plus a good few coyotes out to 300 yards.
Yes, I know it's not the best cartridge for coyotes or deer, but it works so I stick with it.
I use old Dominion or Imperial ammo.  Some Winchester too.
 
I should add, that with lighter bullets, (150 or 174-180), it shoots nowhere near the sight settings, that's why that rifle stays with the 215 grain.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: September 04 2020 at 6:03am
I did a search for 215 gr RN in Canada. Unfortunately the one place I had seen them are currently out of stock of their Woodleighs. Several years ago an older fellow at work gave me a box of CIL 215's but they've long been loaded and shot. I wish I would have conserved them better!
Question: Should a Hornady 174 gr RN (.312) "grip" the rifling better than a spitzer due to more bullet contact because of the less severe taper? Thanks!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 04 2020 at 2:31pm
HT, yes, the flat base RN 174 gr bullet will have more bearing surfaces area contact with the rifling.  That might help in a worn bore, but if your barrel is .303 to .304, the spitzers should still shoot well.   Test them both and see how they shoot in your rifle.  


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: September 04 2020 at 6:23pm
I have developed 180 Sierra Prohunter (spitzer) loads for the rifles that shoot the heavier pill better than a 150 spire point so I'll be able to see fairly quickly how the RN stacks up against them. 


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: September 05 2020 at 7:43am
Would it also make sense that owners that feel their Enfield bore is worn that the 174 Hornady RN would be a good option to try seeing that it is .312" and has more contact area than a spitzer?


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: September 05 2020 at 10:47am
Possibly more because of the .312 instead of .311"?


-------------
Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: September 06 2020 at 4:39am
Yes, would certainly be worth trying the .312 RN if .311 spitzers did not shoot well.  




Posted By: Charlie Gillman
Date Posted: December 03 2020 at 3:52pm
Over the years, I've shot a number of deer with the 180 grain .311" Sierra spitzer, and it's OK, but I really didn't like the its performance on hogs in Texas. I thought the bullet was a little hard, not opening up reliably on smaller 90 to 125 pound meat pigs. Now I use 180 grain .311" Remington Cor-Lokt or 180 grain .311" Speer Hot Core and like the roundnoses much better for on-game killing power. They have more smack. The .312 Hornady 174 grain RN kills very well, too, I filled this year's Doe Tag with it, she fell over on the spot, never moved.   The Sierra spitzers are very accurate, I have several boxes left, they're used for target shooting. 

-------------
Gill


Posted By: Stumpkiller
Date Posted: December 03 2020 at 7:00pm
Most bullet manufacturers will tell you the optimal velocity for their hunting bullets.  If your range is 200 yards look at how your choices perform at the velocity you might have with your load at that range.

I have had round nose (Brown Bear 180 gr soft-point 7.62mm x 54R) give disappointing results on whitetail deer.  The Brown Bear is apparantly designed for it's name sake.  Killed the deer (both under 20 yards ground-level double lung) but I might as well have stabbed them through with a length of rebar and pulled it back out.  No real sign of expansion but great penetration.  They ran out of air before blood.  


-------------
Charlie P.

Life is not about how fast you run, or how high you climb, but how well you bounce.


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: December 04 2020 at 6:48am
I had a similar result this season. I switched from a 150 SP Hornady to 168 gr Hornady RN. Folded a nice doe at 75 yards. Saw her actually shudder. It trotted off and died in the bush about 75 yards away. Autopsy revealed a neat .312 hole through and through, including the heart. I was somewhat surprised by the results with the RN.


Posted By: Coachman1967
Date Posted: December 15 2020 at 5:49pm
I've been using the 174 gr. RN for many years now in many of my SMLE's. I even worked up a load for my single shot 303 Martini Henry that is pretty deadly. The last critter I took with one of my 303's was a couple years back, knocked down a cow Moose at about 175 yards. It went about 30 yards and piled up, no worries with the terminal performance of those 174 gr's.



-------------
If God intended us to be vegetarians, he would have made broccoli more fun to shoot.



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net