My No4 trigger is a single stage not double.
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Gunsmithing
Forum Description: Submit any how-to's or other gunsmithing suggestions here.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11887
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 7:10pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: My No4 trigger is a single stage not double.
Posted By: Berg
Subject: My No4 trigger is a single stage not double.
Date Posted: February 12 2022 at 6:50pm
|
Is there something wrong with my trigger? When the bolt is open and pulled back from battery I can feel a distinct 2 stage motion when I pull on the trigger. Then the bolt is closed and cocked, it fires from a single stage. Even moving the trigger very slowly I can only feel a single stage before the the rifle fires. Here's the trigger motion when the bolt is open and there's no tension against it. I can feel two stages. https://i.imgur.com/07n0Ti4.mp4" rel="nofollow - https://i.imgur.com/07n0Ti4.mp4 Here's the motion when bolt is cocked. I can only feel a single state. https://i.imgur.com/u1yfG6S.mp4" rel="nofollow - https://i.imgur.com/u1yfG6S.mp4 And here's when the bolt is closed and not cocked, also only a single stage. https://imgur.com/PvA9UKT" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/PvA9UKT Here is the contact surface of the bolt  |
Replies:
Posted By: Berg
Date Posted: February 12 2022 at 6:59pm
|
Here is the travel of the sear when the bolt is closed but not cocked https://imgur.com/pujdFHi" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/pujdFHi And now the same but the bolt is cocked https://imgur.com/PTjFfiD" rel="nofollow - https://imgur.com/PTjFfiD I've tried this process with two different bolts and they are both identical in feel. A single stage trigger when the bolt is cocked and a 2-stage trigger when the bolt is open.
|
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 12 2022 at 9:19pm
|
Just my two cents here:
Stone the cocking piece enough to get rid of that notch and then polish it with jewelers rouge. Polish the sear where it contacts the cocking piece as well as the trigger contact. It is also beneficial to polish both humps on the trigger itself. If you do not have a honing stone 400 grit sandpaper works just as well. Do not get so aggressive that you change the angle...
|
Posted By: Treig74
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 2:57am
|
I just finished assembling a savage #4 and mine is the same way. But my trigger appears to not have the two humps for the stages...gonna pull it apart again quick and take a look... |
Posted By: Treig74
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 3:09am
|
Ok, I was mistaken...It appears I have the same issue. Looking at the sear on mine it looks like it isn't dropping in all the way when cocked. Kinda hanging right on the edge...and i have no contact on the first stage. very interesting, this is a new rifle to me so I'm just learning about it...but thought it was pretty bad to have a trigger floating aroud with that much free play. anyway happy I discovered you post. I'll update with direction of the fix on mine...and post a pic if i can figure out how. Oh, mines a 43 lend lease... |
Posted By: Treig74
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 4:48am
|
Looking at mine and watching your videos both of our contact at the trigger and the bolt is about the same. I don't have enough travel in mine to get it farther up on the face of the bolt to even contact my first stage. It tops out in its channel in the receiver, my trigger is a little flat on the stages, yours is a little better but that wouldn't even make a dent in the amount of travel needed to make the first stage actually function when cocked. I could be wrong but the issue on mine is definitely the sear or there's a problem with the surface the sear engages with on the cocking piece...yours looks like notch it has a notch possibly not allowing it slide up a bit, but mine lands in the same place and the surface is on my cocking piece is not perfect but really close to it. We both have what appears to be the same sear, same angle at the trigger contact, same clearance issue at the sear pivot where it cant travel up any farther on the coking piece, I need about an .125" of movement to cure my issue but either the material isn't there at the trigger, or there's too much at the pivot point. Anyway to make a long thought short...I'm replacing my sear, but being I'm doing that I'm gonna cut a notch in the surface that contacts the receiver at the pivot and see if can cure this issue. I'm a machinist...and I can safely do this, and if I do wreck the sear Ill have another on the way. It looks like they differ greatly from part to part in reference to the trigger contact angle...scary...wartime manufacturing. Really curious to see what others and yourself think and come up with though! Looking forward to progress you've made, and I'll see if works tomorrow and update everyone, log in on my phone and post some pics! |
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 6:30am
|
Yes, that notch in the face of the cocking piece “bent” can mess up the feel of the trigger. If the rifle was used in competition, the shooter may have tried to lighten the trigger and reduce any creep in the second stage by stoning some material off the bottom surface of the bent. If he stoned too much off, the sear will slip off the edge of the bent before going into the second stage. The same thing could happen if the angle of the bent surface was altered too much to try and lighten the trigger. You might be better off finding a NOS cocking piece.
I agree with Gossic, start by stoning/honing the face of the bent to remove the notch. Be very careful to not change the angle of the surface. I don’t have access to any of my reference books at the moment, I would send you a photo of the instructions for reworking the surface angle of the bent if I could. Nice job with the videos. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 10:54am
|
Also move the stone vertically not horizontally. You want the "scratches" to go with, not across the direction of travel.  the 2 "humps" on the trigger are the stages so the lower one should contact firs dropping the sear slightly & the upper one should "snap" it off the cocking piece. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Berg
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 7:36pm
|
All the advice has been very helpful! I took apart my bolt and polished the cocking piece with 400 grit then polishing compound. Went from this  To this  But so far no change. I will keep investigating this.
|
Posted By: Treig74
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 11:41pm
|
Hey Berg! Very Nice!!! Did you get any of the first stage back? Before you put it back together there's a quick way to see if your having the same issue I was. Its a mouthful to write out but the process is actually only about an hours worth of work. Take into account what britrifles said about finding an NOS cocking piece, If it has been taken back to far it will have some bearing on it also with the relation of contact between the sear and cocking piece...That will have a huge bearing on the actual trigger break in the second stage and although very minor probably; the slightly shorter cocked distance and lower pressure in the pin contact on the primer...but that's just speculation on my part!!! You will definitely be able to tell if that's an issue if you decide to go through the firing mechanism like i did with mine. Ok! Let me explain what my issue was and chances are yours is too, I apologize if it gets repetitive. Big Thank you to the member that posted the diagram!!! it made all the difference! keep looking at this for reference as you read through this post! After looking at the diagram(pretty sure that's for a No1 Mk3) but it was exactly what I needed. The diagram shows the relief in the top of the sear that all the No4's I researched don't seem to have. so I took my sear out and put about a .020" bevel and smoothed it back to the pivot point and voila, my sear was now contacting the cocking piece about .035" higher up on the face and i have about .375" of first stage pull before the second goes boom, its a lot less then my sks Lol!!!, and very comfortable and a lot safer if its dropped. I don't have a trigger pull gauge but I'm guessing about 6lbs. I was gonna make a video showing what I did and why, but ive been stuck working and had to put the rifle back together ( Oh , if you put yous back together take the lower stock off again and reassemnle the trigger mechanism so you can see it functioning and be able to measure) Here's how I did it:
1. Cock the rifle and look at the where the sear contacts the face of the cocking piece. take a pic of the two if you need to remember. anyway...with it cocked and ready to fire pull the safe on and watch what happens as the bolt comes back away from the sear. also put the bolt in half cock position and check the sear contact in this spot also. The sear wont change its own position but the reference is good to take into account as far as clearance is concerned. 2. Take a look at where the sear contacts the receiver in the pivot box. (highest point of upward movement.) mark it with either a light scribe or a non marking pen as long as you will be able to see it. this line is the reference point. 3. With the it cocked and the safety is holding the bolt back you are able to see how high you are contacting the cocking piece, where the position of the sear is at in the pivot box when bottomed out. 4. Now you can check the relation of the 1st and stage points on the trigger in relation to the position of the sear. figure out the difference between the 1st stage and the surface of the sear face before contact is made. If you do have enough room to remove some material, and its absolutely pertinent that you have the room...the material has to be ground level so full even contact is made and take very little at a time and keep checking it. My distance was around 3/32" (around.045") I removed roughly .020" and checked it crossing my fingers and a bit nervous and I had a 1st stage again. I didn't go any farther with it and tested the action and function of the firing mechanism. No offense meant by any means, but if your not confident with a dremel tool, or have a surface square to a grinder face with a very fine wheel just take it to a gunsmith. If you slip your sear is garbage (unless your a tig welder)...or the the contact on the cocking piece will be too high and your trigger pull will be atrocious and really hard to get into or passed half cock position. My half cock contact was almost splitting hairs..barely sitting in there, now its very positive and easy to set in that position. Anyway I hope this helps you...It cured my No4mk1 trigger issues almost completely...I also polished my contact face...it was in really good shape to start with though. If you have any questions...hopefully the video will explain them but I'll answer them the best i can here until i get the video made hopefully by Tuesday or Wednesday evening. If you decide to try and tackle this just take your time...measure 4 times and a few test runs before you actually make contact grinding!!! |
Posted By: Treig74
Date Posted: February 13 2022 at 11:43pm
|
Shamu, Thank you for posting the diagram, This was invaluable for solving my issue... |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 14 2022 at 1:53am
| The triggers axis pin hole may have gotten out of round. Can you physically move the trigger in a back and forth motion while it is in place with the pin? |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 14 2022 at 9:48am
|
Glad I could help. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 14 2022 at 9:54am
|
I thought I'd hosted this on here but I guess not. At least not til now!   ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Treig74
Date Posted: February 14 2022 at 7:13pm
These are even better...Double Thank You...this what i had to do to mine to get the first stage back, once again thank you for the diagram!!! Berg, with this diagram you should be able to diagnose Yours without an issue...it shows almost exactly where mine is now at. This is a great community! |
Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 15 2022 at 1:56pm
|
Berg, looking at the photos of your stoning of the cocking piece; I suggest you replace it. In the first photo, the groove is deepr at one side; so either the cocking piece or the sear is not square. In the second photo, after stoning; you have a rounded edge and what looks like a slightly bevelled surface on the face. This will not give a reliable pull off. It should be flat with a sharp edge and the correct angle for a regular, reliable pull off. To check the trigger and sear operation, take off the wood and refit the trigger guard to observe the operation of both trigger stages. A bent trigger guard can cause issues. ------------- It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice! |
Posted By: Berg
Date Posted: February 22 2022 at 7:21pm
|
OK you guys were right. It was the cocking piece. I replaced it with a spare I had on another bolt and now it works as it should. |
Posted By: Enfield trader
Date Posted: May 24 2022 at 12:37pm
| Also note if the trigger guard is bent this can take away the 2 stage and make it a single stage. |