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Lee Enfield No.4 Mk. 1 receiver rail woren

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Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Gunsmithing
Forum Description: Submit any how-to's or other gunsmithing suggestions here.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12074
Printed Date: October 04 2022 at 7:59pm
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Topic: Lee Enfield No.4 Mk. 1 receiver rail woren
Posted By: KWBlair
Subject: Lee Enfield No.4 Mk. 1 receiver rail woren
Date Posted: June 11 2022 at 5:21am
Gunsmith Question 
I have a Lee Enfield number 4 Mark 1. The rail that the bolt slides on is worn at the point of where you can flip out the injector to slide the bolt out for cleaning. Can this be welded and re-machine via gunsmith to correct the problem. Thanks one and all for your attention. 

Regards,
KWBlair



Replies:
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 11 2022 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by KWBlair KWBlair wrote:

Gunsmith Question 
I have a Lee Enfield number 4 Mark 1. The rail that the bolt slides on is worn at the point of where you can flip out the injector to slide the bolt out for cleaning. Can this be welded and re-machine via gunsmith to correct the problem. Thanks one and all for your attention. 

Regards,
KWBlair
Welcome from Phoenix Arizona KWBlair.
Anything can be accomplished by a reputable gunsmith and if you are willing to she!! out alot of money. "Speed is just a question of money. How fast do you want to go?"
If the raceway is that far worn you should consider trying to locate another rifle that is in better condition.


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: June 11 2022 at 6:44pm
welcome , hope you get it fixed 


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 12 2022 at 3:27am
I want to fix this one. I want to restore this rifle to its former glory. The Lee Enfield's are just now starting to becoming hard to find, as far as a good one is concerned. This is why I do not mined spend the extra money to a gunsmith that known we he or she is doing to fix the problem. The rifle still function decently with the weight of a cartridge in the grasp of the extractor. As long as I do not engage in a mad minute. After all the Lee Enfield are known best for their accuracy at extremely long ranges. So, if anyone knows of a Lee Enfield gunsmith here in the United States of America. It would be greatly appreciated, if someone could or would give me their contact information, So we, all here in the Enfield-Rifle.Com community can save such a well respected, and elegant rifle. That can only be match, if not surpassed by that of the M1 Garand. So, if anyone knows a really good gunsmith please respond to this posting.

With Respect & Regards To All,
KWBlair


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 12 2022 at 11:04am
BDL ltd. Brian d**k has an excellent reputation for Lee Enfield repairs.

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 12 2022 at 11:57am
Wouldn't hurt to contact a reputable machine shop. A good welder can build up the area after finding out the steel composition and a machinist could kill it to spec. Then you could paint or blue the receiver.


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 12 2022 at 12:31pm
Zed,
I just sent BDL LTD a message via his website. Once, I receive a message. I will inform everyone of what Brian had to say about it.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 13 2022 at 4:00am
Definitely worth getting a professional opinion.
Personally I would think that welding the receiver would be a bad idea; because it may have an effect on the original heat treatment of the component. Seeing as it's holding around 18 tons per square inch next to your face when firing. I would prefer an original rifle in good condition.
But I'm sure that Brian will be able to advise you from a professional point of view.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 13 2022 at 4:37am
This reciever may be worn beyond repair.  Brian would be the guy to send it to.  Can you feel any radial movement at the back of the bolt when it is locked?  


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 14 2022 at 1:43am
As promised, I would tell all of you what Brian d**k had to say about this problem. So here is what he wrote.

BRIAN d**k

Sun, Jun 12, 6:08 PM (2 days ago)
to me
Kevin,

He’ll need to tig the corners where it’s chipped and then file by hand or machine the track if he has a milling machine. I used to file them with needle files. Heat in the area is not a huge issue as the hardening is in the rear locking recesses. The weld must be compatible with mild tool steel. If you need me to remove and install the barrel for him, I’ll be glad to do it if he’s not set up for barreling Lees. I’m not sure whether your rifle gauges up to spec or how much use it has. Many rifles with chipped rails are very well used and may have other problems. The bodies do wear out. I’ve had many sent here for new barrels, some No.4 but mostly Mk.III. About half from the RTI Ethiopian imports in recent years. Hopefully, your LB isn’t one of those. You just don’t know without a proper inspection and check with correct gauges. The hardening in the locking recesses is only 3-4 thousandths deep and wears through so when it happens the body is scrap. You can fix the headspace but they just set back again. The sear table also wears and the sear will start to drag and catch on the left hand locking lug on the bolt. There’s a one time fix for it and I had a correct tool made so can help there too. Let me know how you make out. Thanks. 




Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 14 2022 at 12:10pm
Great that you've got advice from Brian.
Let us know how you get on!


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 14 2022 at 12:15pm
I'd send Brian the barreled action if I was you to have him inspect and gage.  Note what he said about "The bodies do wear out.".  he is referring to the surfaces that the bolt rides on.  If the rifle was not kept very clean, dirt/sand/grit gets in there and wears the bolt and body so that bolt fit gets sloppy.  




Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 18 2022 at 10:07am
UPDATE FOR YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With the advice of Brian d**k, I just got back from taking the Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 Canadian LongBranch, and the Eddystone Pattern 1914 to Bruce Dow, in Dade City, Florida. Bruce first looked at the worn rail on the No4 Mk1. He said, "yes it can absolutely be repaired and saved. He then did a quick inspection of the barrel, muzzle, and chamber area's. I am happy to report that he told me the barrel was in good shape and very serviceable.
So, I did decide to live it with him for the necessary repair. 

Bruce's first look the Pattern 1914 rifle, He said "this is in excellence condition. The wood looks beautiful. I thought it needed a new barrel, and Bruce said, "no it doesn't." I told him, I thought the chamber was worn out. He said no there is nothing wrong with it. I did decide to leave it with him as well. I requested that he inspect it thoroughly and put gages the barrel. He is quoted as saying "this one is the happy success story." I was asked where I picked up the Pattern 1914. I told him a few months ago at the Tampa, Florida gun show.

I will send out another update for you all as I know farther developments. 


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 18 2022 at 2:14pm
Excellent!  This will give you piece of mind knowing it is safe to shoot and fully serviceable.  


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 18 2022 at 2:37pm
Yes it does give me a great deal of peace of mind. Also what gives me a great deal of peace of mind is that the fact that Bruce Dow, Who is internationally renowned for his talent as a gunsmith specializing on the Enfield line it’s self as well as M1 grands and 14s etc. Knowing that it’s in his hands and that the advice that was given to me by not one but two other gunsmiths said I should take it to him. Both of those Gentlemen and their names are Brian d**k of South Carolina , and Greg Keller of Dunedin, Florida both said Bruce Dow is the final Authority that if it can be fixed it will get fixed. Guys I can’t tell you, what an honor it was to meet a gentleman like Bruce Dow. I respectfully shook his hand when I first met him and I respectfully shook his hand after I gave my two rifles to him. I feel real good inside myself today. Knowing that I did something necessarily very correct to preserve a part of history that is slowly fading away. I will definitely let all you guys know how things go with both rifles. Thanks for reading and I hope everyone a very good weekend.



Posted By: scottz63
Date Posted: June 18 2022 at 3:19pm
Very good news!

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14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 20 2022 at 1:13pm
Pleased to hear that you have found a top quality solution.
Peace of mind is essential for shooting these old firearms.Thumbs Up


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 20 2022 at 4:39pm
Thank you, and might I add Bruce Dow is world wide renowned. I did not even know with him until I join the Enfield-Rifle.com community. I was referred to him by Brian d**k. Bruce Dow mentored Brian d**k for 35 years. After speaking with Brian on the telephone, he told me Bruce lived in Dade City, FL. Only 34 miles from my front door in Spring Hill, FL. and the rest you already know about.


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 25 2022 at 5:06pm
I stop out to see Bruce Dow today at Dow Arms in Dade City, Florida to check on how things were going with my No4 Mk1/2 Star Canadian long Branch & the Pattern 1914. Things are going well progressing well with them both. But truth be told the reason why I went back out to Bruce's shop was because of what I saw this week. I saw a British Lee Enfield No1 Mk3 SMLE hanging on his wall for sale. Guy, I bought it today, and next weekend I am out the front door and down range to a 600 yard range to see what it can do. Bruce being a gunsmith has inspected it and it is definitely safe to shot. i will let everyone know how it goings next weekend after I return from the range.



Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 27 2022 at 9:48am
Just some friendly shooting advice. Instead of starting out @ 600 yards, you would be much better putting some groups down on paper @ 100 yards to get an idea of where the rifle puts the bullets 
 Good luck on whatever you decide to do...


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 27 2022 at 10:15am
That's a lot of walking to see if you are even on paper! If it was me with any new rifle I didn't know how it shot I'd start at 25 yds, then 100 yds. Myself I would increase by 100 yds. If it shot a head sized group at 200 yds, I'd say "Bob's your uncle" and go home happy! But thats just me! Best of luck and keep us posted!


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 27 2022 at 10:38am
Yup, would be tough figuring out which way to move the sights if the 600 yd shots are not on paper.  You might be able to see the dirt fly and adjust accordingly…

You can quite effectively “bore sight” the rifle on the bench at 100 or 200 yds that will get you in the target black aiming mark on your first shot.  Adjust the sights to your desired point of aim with the black bull centered in the bore.  Done this many times myself. 


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: June 27 2022 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Honkytonk Honkytonk wrote:

That's a lot of walking to see if you are even on paper! If it was me with any new rifle I didn't know how it shot I'd start at 25 yds, then 100 yds. Myself I would increase by 100 yds. If it shot a head sized group at 200 yds, I'd say "Bob's your uncle" and go home happy! But thats just me! Best of luck and keep us posted!

 
I concur,

Head size group!, don`t you mean minute of man, i`m always happy with a minute of man group from any high power rifle, because in the end, that`s all that matters....Wink


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shoot em if you got em


Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: June 27 2022 at 11:59am
Yes sir, you are correct! Although being Canadians, and so we don't get in trouble with our Prime Minister, it should probably be "minute of person"!


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 1:57am
Goosic, You may have misunderstood me. The range, I am going to in graduated from 50 yards all the way out to 600 yards. I am retired from the Us army and completely aware of the fact that I will be shoot at 50 yards of a zeroing target that is designed for that range to see where it hit before I go to the real long range shooting. I am also aware of the fact that all the Lee Enfield was bore sighted for 200 yards.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by KWBlair KWBlair wrote:

I bought it today, and next weekend I am out the front door and down range to a 600 yard range to see what it can do. 
I did not misunderstand.  I read it the way you wrote it. Again, good luck.


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by KWBlair KWBlair wrote:

I am also aware of the fact that all the Lee Enfield was bore sighted for 200 yards.
All rifles were originally tested at 100 feet with 10 percent of those fired at 600 yards. In both cases the rifle was held in a mechanical rest.
Four out of five rounds fired at 100 feet must come within a rectangle 1"× 1.5". At 600 yards nine out of ten shots fired must hit within a 2-foot circle


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 2:09pm
That still does not change the fact that they were bore sighted at 200 yards.



Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 5:59pm
Relax guys, you can shoot at 25 yds on a "600 yd range" as long as there are targets there.
Recently zeroed on a 25, then 100 yd on a 300 yd range.Thumbs Up
It's usually accepted that a range is rated at Maximum, not the used range!



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 6:13pm
Right. Range 1 at the TMP is often referred to as the 600 yd range.  Targets are at 200, 300 and 600 yds…I didn’t think of it that way either. 


Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: June 28 2022 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by KWBlair KWBlair wrote:

That still does not change the fact that they were bore sighted at 200 yards.

What I wrote is taken directly from Ian Skennerton's book on the Enfield rifle. So yes, it does change the fact good sir. You might want to invest some time reading the works of both Skip Stratton and Ian Skennerton. Might just learn ya' sumthin' pard...


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: June 29 2022 at 2:53am
Let us know how you get on at the range.
When the No4 is repaired, compare the two!



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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: KWBlair
Date Posted: July 23 2022 at 11:07am
Brian d**k,
I hope you still remember me. This is Kevin Blair, and I took two rifles to Bruce Dow. They were a Lee Enfield No. 4 Mk. 1/2* Canadian Long Branch, and a Lee Enfield Pattern 1914. I just received back the Long Branch from Bruce today. I cannot begin to thank you enough for the extremely professional advice you gave me about seeing Bruce. The craftsmanship is superb. He really did a first class job. The repair not only saved the rifle but, it looks like it just left Fazakerley Royal Ordnance Factory in England. Enclosed is a short video of the repairs Bruce has completed on the Long Branch rifle.

As for the Pattern 1914, Bruce and I are waiting on criterion barrel makers. Bruce told me today that there is a 6 month lead time coming out of Criterion. I told him, if that's what it takes to save another Enfield. Then that's alright too. I will keep you posted. 

With Respects,
Kevin Blair





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