No4 Mk 1
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12564
Printed Date: September 29 2023 at 10:54am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: No4 Mk 1
Posted By: bubba ho tep
Subject: No4 Mk 1
Date Posted: February 25 2023 at 3:20pm
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Was at the SOS/NGD shows in Louisville KY today and yesterday. Took a young guy today whom is a budding collector. He had a want for a nice No4. We found a complete matching No4 Mk1 and he haggled it from $795 to $650. It is by all appearances near mint in and out. So got looking at it and it's just marked M.1944 on the socket with a serial prefix of B U . Me not being a No4 expert by any stretch am not up on whom actually made this rifle. No FTR mark anywhere and appears to be as issued. So what maker is this ?. There is a tiny century import stamp by the bottom triggerguard screw on the socket and UK 303 brit on the receiver - very small as well.
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Replies:
Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: February 25 2023 at 4:57pm
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Royal Ordnance Factory Maltby https://www.d4guns.com/product/rof-maltby-enfield-no-4-mk-1-303-brit/" rel="nofollow - ------------- shoot em if you got em |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: February 25 2023 at 5:37pm
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A Maltby made rifle. ------------- Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually |
Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 9:50am
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Thanks guys. My suspicion was Maltby due to the 'M'. Just was not plain to find out in my old Skennerton book. My buddy said the NRA site shows No4's with the BU prefix were largely airdropped to french resistance before D Day. That may explain it's fantastic condition. Overall I think he got a bargain for the complete match , superb original finish on metal and bore. His wood looked as though it may have been rubbed down with some solvent to remove factory grease - which grease is evident on some metal parts still. But no sanding Seeing the prices some tropes were asking at the show for mismatch beaters to bitsers even he did very well indeed. The little coaching I helped him on haggling paid dividends , and he got a great rifle that was minimally monkeyed with. Hard to find any No4 in such period original trim.
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Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 11:05am
| That works out to aboot $885 Canadian, which seems like a very nice deal. Well done! |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 11:46am
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In this part of the States, North Carolina, a rifle like that is about $1000.00 ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 11:47am
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Its probably one of the Cache of resistance rifles recently imported. There are a couple of owners on here, one in France who got his locally! RE the wood & metal. Not sanded is good,  don't sand it!You can easily clean any grease with a little denatured alcohol on old T-shirt patches. Once done, if you go that route, re-oil the metal with any good gun lube of your choice & the wood gets hand rubbed with a few coats of RAW Linseed oil. Everything will be bone dry, but at least not gummed up with old grease. NOT THE HOME DESPOT rubbish, go to Hobby Lobby & get an 8oz bottle of the Real McCoy from the art & painting dept. There are several threads on here detailing restoring & rejuvenating old dry wood.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 11:55am
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Your buddy got a nice rifle, havn`t seen any up here for sale yet....  And probably won`t any time soon. ------------- shoot em if you got em |
Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 1:18pm
| $1k ?. ouch !. |
Posted By: bubba ho tep
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 1:20pm
Part of my collecting credo has always been NEVER muck up the wood...NEVER. It drives me nuts when I see guys "cleaning" up their finds and include sanding and chemical "cleansing" of the wood to be an improvement. It does the exact opposite !.
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Shamu wrote:Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 26 2023 at 6:35pm
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I won't go any stronger than the denatured, particularly if there's a lot of half removed cosmolene in there. Even my La Brea Tar Pits special I just heat soaked it (paper towels black trash bag "Dustbuster van" parcel shelf) It was literally sweating old filthy rancid oil. I think I saved it from turning to punkwood. I did use some Murphy's oil soap, but that's designed as a wood cleaner, nothing nasty in it. I've never sanded a stock.
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Dragunov
Date Posted: February 27 2023 at 4:16am
| I go to one or two shows a month here in Central Florida. When I do see a nice, all matching No.4 it generally in the $900 range. So, I'd say your young friend did well. Heck, I regularly see vendors pushing mismatched bubba "cut-downs" for $700, and holding firm thinking they are the only girl residing in the lumber camp. |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: February 27 2023 at 8:37am
$1100.00 out the door for this all matching and unfired 1944 Maltby made No4Mk1 and I truly believe it was money well spent...
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Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: February 27 2023 at 10:55am
| Not being a collector, I have never had an issue with stripping the ancient goo (who knows who, what and when it was applied?) and starting a new cycle of linseed oil. I will say I've also never sanded a LE stock, but have buffed with xxx steel wool before and in between linseed applications. |
Posted By: RustySurplus
Date Posted: February 28 2023 at 3:49pm
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Hey guys Bubbas buddy here so to put everyone at ease there was no sanding done on the rifle. (I will upload some photos if I can figure out how.) But at some point someone did stick a piece of blue piece of tape on the stock thanks to bubba showing me a trick I was able to get the the adhesive mark off the stock without harming or damaging anything. As I said I’ll post some photos when I figure out how from what I’ve gathered up it’s just a 1944 Maltby which in my personal opinion looks in great shape but I’m definitely no expert. It even has on the sling what I believe to be a Solider ID followed up by initials but I’m 100% willing to be wrong/corrected on that.
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: February 28 2023 at 7:06pm
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Welcome aboard. Best sticky stuff remover I've ever found is "goo gone". It's things like orange oil based & so actually good for wood. My
worst ever sticky stuff was some antediluvian masking tape type stuff
from god knows when. It was used to bundle a bunch of leather bayonet
sheaths together. The paper backing had completely turned to dust leaving just the rock hard dried out adhesive. I swabbed it with goo gone every night for a week & then it finally moistened up enough I could wipe it off. You can see it in the top image at the metal top of the sheath. The bottom is after a restoration.  Don't worry about being given grief we don't do that here. There are a few tricks to become familiar with if you decide to strip down the rifle beyond pulling the bolt & unscrewing the head, pulling the magazine & fishing the spring & follower out though. We can help you not to make new guy mistakes (some of which can be pretty bad) if you decide to do more. I covered cleaning & re oiling earlier in this thread. Its not hard, but it is slow & painstaking. Pictures are simple click here for a link to the how to: There is a size limit so I resize to 1024 X whatever & it seems to work fine. https://enfield-rifles.com/picture-posting-resizing-cheat-sheet_topic5675_page1.html?KW=posting+pictures" rel="nofollow - https://enfield-rifles.com/picture-posting-resizing-cheat-sheet_topic5675_page1.html?KW=posting+pictures ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: RustySurplus
Date Posted: February 28 2023 at 10:17pm
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Thanks for the tip on “Goo Gone” I’ll have to check it out sometime I’m away from my computer at the moment to resize any of my photos so I uploaded a photo I took of it the other day on this Imgur link https://i.imgur.com/kuMwFf4.jpg" rel="nofollow - https://i.imgur.com/kuMwFf4.jpg
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 01 2023 at 11:19am
| that cleaned up very nicely , still shows its age but looks cared for |
Posted By: RustySurplus
Date Posted: March 01 2023 at 3:34pm
| Than you I had been procrastinating on getting one for forever and was gonna order one from RTI but we found this one at the National Gun Day show and the guy took my offer. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 01 2023 at 4:26pm
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That's a nice looking rifle. Streets ahead of what RTI has been digging out of their junk pile. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: RustySurplus
Date Posted: March 01 2023 at 6:58pm
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Thank you! I’ve been told if I started with an RTI at the very minimal it would probably need a new barrel
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Posted By: Dragunov
Date Posted: March 02 2023 at 8:36am
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I live here in Melbourne, FL, the home of RTI. The local banter is that RTI is an acronym for Rusty, Trashed and Incomplete. I've seen quite a few of their Enfields and Mausers at the Melbourne gun show (about 275 tables). Never seen one above about NRA 30%.
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Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 02 2023 at 10:34am
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Good to know. ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 02 2023 at 4:16pm
Now that "you know" paddy...put earplugs in so the knowledge doesn't leak out!   (gotcha!) ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 03 2023 at 9:25am
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Thanks Hoadie, I will remember that. I send you out a led glow in the dark butt plug out in the post today. Please let me know when it arrives, no photos needed ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: scottz63
Date Posted: March 03 2023 at 11:03am
LMAO!!! ------------- 14EH AIT Instructor-PATRIOT Fire Control Enhanced Operator/Maintainer |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 03 2023 at 11:21am
Just puttin' a little light where the sun don't shine! ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 03 2023 at 3:53pm
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It blinks out sos ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: March 03 2023 at 6:52pm
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You guys really crack me up!!! ------------- Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 04 2023 at 4:27am
I think I'll drive by yer place on the way back from Rhino's & shoot yer front porch light out!  (Might even trans-plant a family of skunks, just fer giggles!  )------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 05 2023 at 9:08am
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I am 3/8 of a mile from the road. Skunks are always welcome, eat them damn fire ants. Pick up a few possums to take to White Rhino, great eating. I will leave the light on for you. ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 05 2023 at 12:42pm
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You'll leave the light on for me, eh? Is that your Tom Bodett impersonation?(Motel6) We don't have fire ants in this neck o the woods..but got lotsa skunks & possums. ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 05 2023 at 3:36pm
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North Carolina possums are better, they carry guns and have a lovely gray uniform. Fire ants are great for pets. ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 05 2023 at 4:37pm
| and they carry the stars and bars proudly , i do too |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 05 2023 at 5:09pm
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And they should ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: March 05 2023 at 5:18pm
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yes indeed - heritage not hatred - they were our forefathers that founght fo their land not any damn slave - most of us couldnt afford one , they were the really rich in this country that still run this country , the rest of us just believe in the founding principles and want to keep our land ....what little we might have if any , oh , and those that had none just didnt want some carpet bagger taking what we might be able to have
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Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: March 06 2023 at 4:18am
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Truth be told - many - if not most - of the southern population @ that time had never SEEN a slave, never mind ownership. Most of the Confederate armies men were barefoot, because they couldn't afford shoes. (If you cant afford shoes - how do you buy / keep slaves??  )...and, Maryland (considered a "Northern State) was going to seceed if Lincoln took away their slave trade...which made Lincoln re-write the emancipation proclamation a couple times to read: "THOSE STATES - DEEMED TO BE IN REBELLION", allowing Maryland to keep that trade alive. For what it's worth...  ------------- Loose wimmen tightened here |
Posted By: paddyofurniture
Date Posted: March 06 2023 at 5:53am
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You are correct about Maryland and the issue of slavery and the 13 amendment. My Family is from Maryland and gray as you can be. ------------- Always looking for military manuals, Dodge M37 items,books on Berlin Germany, old atlases ( before 1946) , military maps of Scotland. English and Canadian gun parts. |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: March 06 2023 at 11:49am
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Maryland played that we're "Northern Southerners or Southern Northerners" a lot. They still do. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |