K.I.S.S. with the Lee Loader...
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Reloading
Forum Name: Reloading .303 British
Forum Description: Enfield-Rifles.com accepts NO responsibility for any loads that may be used by persons reading this forum. USE CAUTION WHEN TRYING ANY NEW LOADS!!! ANY DATA DEEMED UNSAFE WILL BE REMOVED!!!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13108
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 7:10pm
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Topic: K.I.S.S. with the Lee Loader...
Posted By: Goosic
Subject: K.I.S.S. with the Lee Loader...
Date Posted: January 11 2024 at 12:12pm
I have been working on establishing a safe and viable alternative to the .311" 174grn BTHP or FMJ-BT produced by Sierra, PPU and Hornady. The projectile is 170grns and is .312". It is intended for use in the 7.62x54R but being that it is .312" diameter, makes for a perfect candidate for use in the Lee-Enfield Rifle. I have a relic of a Lee Loader and there is a charge table using 37grns of IMR4320 with bullet weights between 170 to 215. I started doing some more research and I found 303B load data dating back to the early 1960's for bullet weights between 170 to 215 using IMR4064, IMR4895 and IMR3031. These loads are considered "Out Dated" but, are still very practical and very safe when loading for an antiquated LE rifle. The 170grn projectile is made by PPU and is a FMJ-BT. When seated to the cannelure, the C.O.L. is 3.085". To me, that is very acceptable. I currently have 6LBS of IMR3031 at my disposal and the ancient load data for that gives a Starting Charge Weight of 34.5grns and a MV of 2100 and a Maximum Charge Weight of 38.5 and a MV of 2400. I have come to the conclusion that a Starting Charge Weight of exactly 36.0grns will be adequate for testing purposes. I will weigh each charge because, why not? I am going to use the Lee Loader for every step. So far, everything is a "GO" and I will update as soon as I can get to the range...    
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Replies:
Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: January 11 2024 at 1:26pm
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Back in the 80`s all I had was the 303 whack-a-mole loader and looking through my old load data I was using 175 gr sp bullets with 36grns of 3031. these were my ground hog loads and very effective as I recall. |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 11 2024 at 2:26pm
That is very good to know that, at least I am right in the general area with charge weight shiloh. Thank you for the information...
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shiloh wrote:Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 11 2024 at 4:30pm
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I reloaded on a lee Whack-a-mole for ever. Its perfectly good tool for the purpose. BUT, it only neck sizes so your ammo is restricted to the same chamber it was fires in. The Lee load tables a famously mild, but there's nothing wrong with them. I'd ass a set of the dippers simply because they open up a much wider powder choice than the one supplied with the kit. I've never felt the need to idividually weigh or trickle, dippers have always been fine for me & I've check weighed them to confirm thisbut there is a technique to using one well. The "D" method. Pour some powder of choice in a wide mouth fairly shallow container of a suitable size. Push the scoop inverted down into the powder. Slowly rotate to facing UP as you pull through the powder till it clears the surface, making a "D" shaped path. It should do a full 180° turn while submerged & exit as close to vertical as it breaks the surface. Tap gently on edge of container once.  ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: January 12 2024 at 3:48am
Brings back old memories. Neck sized was ok then as I understood it. I only had my Churchill custom .303 back then. And measuring with the dipper became a fine art. Rarely did I ever miss a ground hog as far out as 400m. So that`s proof enough in load consistency. Fun times, them`s was.
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Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: January 12 2024 at 3:53am
oops  |
Posted By: Honkytonk
Date Posted: January 12 2024 at 3:08pm
| Twenty years ago an old fellow at work have me a full box of CIL 215 gr RN. I loaded them up a couple of years ago after annealing the brass. They looked pretty nasty! If memory serves me, I used 38 gr of IMR powder. Real thumpers, those were! Especially in the No. 5! Never did kill anything with them so I can only assume they'd hit pretty hard. |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 12 2024 at 3:25pm
My 215grn RN sitting on top of 35.0grns of IMR4895 and seated to 3.085". I have three boxes of these. The last time I shot any of this stuff, they chronographed @ 1895. They supposedly have a stopping power of 2400+ Foot Pounds of Energy @ 100 yards...
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Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: January 12 2024 at 4:58pm
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Based on the general equation for kinetic energy, Ek=½mv2, which directly uses mass (m) and velocity (v), the following formula is used to calculate the kinetic energy of a projectile (expressed in foot-pounds): E=(W*V2)/(14000*gc). In this formula, W = weight of projectile, in grains; V = velocity,
in feet per second; gc= gravitational constant, 32.174 ft/s2x14000= (450436) so you`d have 1434ft.lbs at the point 1895ft/s was measured Still that`s like dropping an entire small car on a 1/4" point at speed, that`s one way of realizing the potential of a small object traveling really fast!! simply devastating. |
Posted By: OldManMontgomery
Date Posted: January 14 2024 at 3:05pm
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For one caliber, one firearm one propellent (powder) and preferably one bullet, the "Hammer operated" Lee Loader is a treat. In the long ago, dim past, I loaded a garbage can full of .38 Special rounds and a fair number of .30-06 rounds in the barracks of MCAS El Toro in California. (It's gone now). It is what I recommend to anyone who admits to being 'starting out' in reloading. It is simply, compact (easy to store when not in use) and teaches one all the steps (and reasons) to reload. As all reloading tools, it give results in proportion to the attention paid in the process. Encourages being careful and not wasting shots. I must confess to adding a hand primer (I don't like smiting them to seat) and a powder dispenser (and scale) to assist the basic kit. In fairness, I only set off one primer with the 'pound in' system: but the one scared my psyche deeply. And a volumetric powder dispenser is quite the same as a dipper for accuracy. However, I spill less powder with a dispenser. Then again, I spill less drinking when I don't fill the cup as full. Different story. I have far more calibers now than then. So I do have more sophisticated machines, but I'm still a 'low volume' loader. Couple subjects mentioned in previous posts. Neck sizing only. That really only applies to rifle rounds, bottle neck rounds. Consider that straight sided cases are in one sense, all neck. So it is easiest to use the cases fired in that particular arm to reload. This is due to cases 'fire forming' to the chamber in which it is fired. While ALL chambers of the same caliber should be identical, with the limits of modern mass production, they do vary. So, the cases fired in 'this' gun will likely fit with less turmoil than cases fired in 'that' gun. But see the caution below. This does not happen with straight sided cases. Look carefully at the cases and you'll figure out why not. If a case of another arm (rifle) does not easily fit, the 'other' chamber was likely too large around in some area. Probably only in .001 inches dimensions, less than the eye can detect. If it can be pushed in, the case will 'fire form' to the current shape and the case will extract much easier than it went in. A note of caution: ALL loadings of reloads must be within the pressure levels mandated for that arm. More about this later. I DO NOT encourage forcing rounds into chambers they do not fit. If anyone should not think that a good idea, listen to your doubts. Do not get fast talked into anything you don't want to do. This applies to the matter at hand or riding home with a driver that has had a couple of drinks. The Lee Loading Manual: All the Lee loading data for powder is mild at the wildest. Reverse engineering the thinking, all the Lee Loading products were initially designed for the easiest way to load safe rounds, using the Lee Loader kit only. As dippers were included and presumed to be used, the 'maximum' loads become the 'maximum' load available to the dipper set without going over the listed (SAAMI) pressure limits. (If you aren't familiar, look it up on line; you really should know.) In short, I really am a Lee Loader fan. For some really odd ball cartridges, it is perfect if 'standard' reloading equipment is too expensive.
------------- I am always ready to learn. I do not always appreciate being taught. |
Posted By: Goosic
Date Posted: January 14 2024 at 9:42pm
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OldManMontgomery. Thank you for that tidbit of information. I am actually a quite proficient and experienced reloader. Started in 1982. I found the "Whack-A-Mole" Lee-Loader on-line and use it occasionally for small batches or when using my antiquated Lyman Turret Press is not necessary...
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 15 2024 at 11:57am
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You're correct about neck only resizing, but I was thinking of .3093 Brit because of the forum. .303 Brit being bottle neck I figured to mention it to be really clear to any newbies thinking of getting started off with one. I've managed to pick up 3 of them at various yard sales & so "fer cheap". Even though I own a Dillon RL550b semi-progressive & a single stage Lyman press they're sill handy for things like final load development at a range. I take primed & resized cases & make a load powder drop, & seat the bullet with the Lee. I went with the Lee dipper set for the same reason. I can dip accurately & they expand the usable powders by a huge mount. Like you said they're also an excellent learning tool.You do each step separately giving a detailed view of the process lacking in even single stage presses..
------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |