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BSA/Tippins patent SMLE Target Sight

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Accessories
Forum Description: Slings, Bandoleers and any other Accessories for the Enfields
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=13783
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 3:31pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: BSA/Tippins patent SMLE Target Sight
Posted By: Strangely Brown
Subject: BSA/Tippins patent SMLE Target Sight
Date Posted: January 26 2025 at 5:50am
The Tippins family history have long interested me and most of their sights I have seen have been for long range shooting, especially on Long Lee's; and the majority of those have been supine rifles with a long tangent sight mounted on the rear of the butt often with a Galilean foresight.

This turned up on Ebay and although the accompanying pictures with it were mainly out of focus the seller was able to answer most of my questions...in his own way!

"The clicks are positive" was part of the sales blurb, indeed they are on the windage wheel, the elevation though is devoid of clicks and the user has to slide the elevation up and down to where he or she thinks it should be and then use the "fine" adjust wheel on top of the sight to correct, this has no clicks but allows about 12 MoA adjustment. 
The windage clicks are a full 1 MoA adjustment and the sight was approved for NRA (UK) use in 1910 when the scoring rings on targets were rather more generous than today. 

The sight fouls the bolt so to take the bolt out the sight tips to the left side and can be folded forward in the same manner as the No.4 rear sight.   

The "tipping" lever seen on the left.



The sight tipped to allow the bolt to be removed.


The sight folded when not in use.


Side view folded


Made by BSA clearly visible along with Martins name (Alexandra Martin's of Glasgow)
I'm nor sure whether this sight contained any design corrections by Martins or their name was on there solely as the retailer.



Some more information about the sight (instruction booklet) and the Tippins family can be found here:
  https://www.rifleman.org.uk/Tippins-Luke_and_John.html" rel="nofollow - Luke & John Tippins of Mistley, Essex. - Their times, tribulations and trials.

Will I use it?
Quite probably although at 200 yards only, the thought of pushing the slide somewhere in the parish of 500 yards is currently giving me the cold sweats! 
























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Mick



Replies:
Posted By: britrifles
Date Posted: January 26 2025 at 8:27am
Very interesting sight Mick. The windage scale looks similar to the rear aperture sight on the Ross Mk III Rifle, perhaps developed around the same time.  Both elevation and windage appear to have a vernier scale. 

Certainly worth trying!  Might take some getting used to for finding repeatable elevation settings for the various ranges. 



Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: January 26 2025 at 8:51am
Originally posted by britrifles britrifles wrote:

Very interesting sight Mick. The windage scale looks similar to the rear aperture sight on the Ross Mk III Rifle, 

Geoff, you have unwittingly discovered a connection between Martin, Tippins and Peddie who were all in the 1908 Olympic Military Rifle Team.
 
From rear 1st left, John Martin (son of Alex Martin Glasgow) 3rd left John Peddie superintendent at Vickers Maxim & Son and designer of the Peddie sight for Ross rifles. 
And finally 6th left John Tippins whose father Luke made the patent for my sight. John didn't survive the Great War and was killed getting water for the Vickers machine gun. Ommundsen front left also  fall in the Great War, he was the 1901 Kings Prize winner and co author of a book called Rifles & Ammunition

If ever there were a group of shooting "influencers" it was this group! 



Apologies to Rifleman.org who I stole the picture from!





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Mick


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 26 2025 at 11:00am
Sweet! I'm fascinated by the mechanical complexity of these old target sights!
Just a thought.
I had an old target sight that I bought online. An A.G. Parker #9W. It had no windage clicks also.
It was also dry, crusty & filthy.
I detail stripped it very carefully taking lots of pictures did a bit of a re-blue & a general C.L.A.
During the process I discovered a tiny leaf spring & ball detent!
When reassembled after the through cleaning & light lube the clicks were working perfectly!
Might you have a similar issue?
Shocked
Before: if you stare down inside the windage vernier you can just see the tip of it over the screw thread down inside the arm.

After



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Canuck
Date Posted: January 26 2025 at 4:40pm
Wow, great restoration!

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Castles made of sand slip into the sea.....eventually


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 26 2025 at 4:50pm
Thanks.



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 3:54am
These old target sights are very interesting. Also collectible! 
I also have an AGParker No9 type on my 1918 SMLE .22


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 4:15am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I also have an AGParker No9 type on my 1918 SMLE .22

I also have a BSA 9c on one of my SMLE's which I absolute love; which is making it a difficult choice to replace the 9c with the BSAA/Tippins above.

Or do I find another SMLE to put it on...?


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Mick


Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 5:50am
Nice find SB and a sight I wasn't familiar with prior to your post.  Like Shamu I too am fascinated with the old micrometer peep sights, so much that I have added several to rifles I have bought to improve my accuracy when shooting with them.  That, and I think it adds a little more interest when I display them.


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 11:01am
I'd say it's worth buying another rifle to fit the sight!

Here's my 1918 .22 Peddled scheme SMLE, which still wears it's original woodwork. It is definitely one of my favourites. A real joy to shoot and still very accurate.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Zed Zed wrote:

I'd say it's worth buying another rifle to fit the sight!

I'm still working on that one Zed.
That looks like a BSA 9G you have there, nice combo! 


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Mick


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 11:49am
Sweet setup!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 27 2025 at 10:36pm
It's made by AG Parker. But I think the original design is BSA. 
I did have on the .303 initially, but I found that the main thumb screw 
( which is not original) would work loose and cause errors. (Recoil).
So I fitted a later PH sight to the .303 and put this one on the .22
Luckily the French Federation have recently added a class for service match rifles in the Trainer class. So I get to use it in competition.


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: shiloh
Date Posted: January 28 2025 at 7:43am
These old sights are so steampunk, I luv em, they always attract attention and questions.


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2025 at 11:23am
I just put a suitable sized wave spring washer under the head.Wink
I'm not sure who originally designed it, or if BSA made it for AGP from their design?



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: January 28 2025 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Shamu Shamu wrote:

I'm not sure who originally designed it, or if BSA made it for AGP from their design?

I believe the 9c was all BSA's own work; the 9f & 9g all had improvements put in by AG Parker (Alfred Gray Parker) and by the time they had come to the market place AGP were working out of larger premises in Whittall Street Birmingham at the famous, AGP Bisley Works.
The move to Whittall street afforded them larger premises to manufacture more items; I suspect BSA were happy to let them have the sights to make so they could concentrate on rifle manufacture. 

Edited to add:
I've since read elsewhere that BSA bought the design and rights of the 9c from another source, something I cannot at the moment verify.


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Mick


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 28 2025 at 2:23pm
That would make perfect sense!
The 9W was later on & had the longer windage arm, making it more suitable for the S.M.L.E. with its "fatter" action.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 7:34am
Update on the BSA Tippins.

I've been struggling to make it fit my SMLE so took it to Fultons at Bisley this morning, the upshot is that it will fit a Long Lee without the bolt shroud, but will only fit an SMLE with the safety catch removed.
Because of this I have decided not to do anything with it at present.

They did however have a very nice Long Lee in the shop...


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Mick


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 10:57am
Long Lee... Sounds like a plan!Thumbs Up

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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 12:39pm
Go for it! Evil Smile


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Strangely Brown Strangely Brown wrote:

Update on the BSA Tippins.
I've been struggling to make it fit my SMLE so took it to Fultons at Bisley this morning

SB, if it's not too much of an imposition could I prevail upon you to make inquiries at Fultons regarding a BSA No.1 MkIII rifle I have that was regulated by them?  I've emailed them but haven't received a reply and I'd be very interested in hearing the history of my rifle.  It's serial number is 23672, no prefix, has the transitional forestock, no dates or export stamps.  Any assistance is greatly appreciated!




Posted By: Strangely Brown
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Sapper740 Sapper740 wrote:

[QUOT]I've emailed them but haven't received a reply and I'd be very interested in hearing the history of my rifle.  It's serial number is 23672, no prefix, has the transitional forestock, no dates or export stamps.  Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Derek, I'm hopefully there on Tuesday as long as the NRA accept my booking for a couple of hours before lunch. I will ask but given the thousands of SMLE's they have worked on over the years I have my doubts they will be able to furnish you with any details. 

Nice looking rifle by the way; classic target set up with the rear sight removed so it doesn't get in the line of sight with the 5a and the copper band holding the spring on the barrel finishes the look off a treat.

On a very nerdy note I think the last time an SMLE won the sovereigns prize at Bisley was only in 1958 by Robin Fulton...I must get out more!


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Mick


Posted By: Sapper740
Date Posted: January 31 2025 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by Strangely Brown Strangely Brown wrote:

Originally posted by Sapper740 Sapper740 wrote:

[QUOT]I've emailed them but haven't received a reply and I'd be very interested in hearing the history of my rifle.  It's serial number is 23672, no prefix, has the transitional forestock, no dates or export stamps.  Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Derek, I'm hopefully there on Tuesday as long as the NRA accept my booking for a couple of hours before lunch. I will ask but given the thousands of SMLE's they have worked on over the years I have my doubts they will be able to furnish you with any details. 

Nice looking rifle by the way; classic target set up with the rear sight removed so it doesn't get in the line of sight with the 5a and the copper band holding the spring on the barrel finishes the look off a treat.

On a very nerdy note I think the last time an SMLE won the sovereigns prize at Bisley was only in 1958 by Robin Fulton...I must get out more!

Thanks Mick.  The rifle is one of the crown jewels in my collection and unfortunately the one I know the least about.  

Regards, Derek


Posted By: Zed
Date Posted: February 01 2025 at 10:07am
That is a real beauty Sapper!
Do you shoot it in competition?


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It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!



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