Print Page | Close Window

rifle identified

Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Off Topic
Forum Name: Military Talk
Forum Description: Feel free to talk about anything military related.
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1958
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 8:52pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: rifle identified
Posted By: hoadie
Subject: rifle identified
Date Posted: May 18 2008 at 3:09pm
well-I figgered it out! One of the fairly recent acquisitions of mine from the Legion was a rifle Identified as a French "Novocheck" Well-I never heard of such a critter-but then theres ALOT of things I dont know.
Everytime I'd talk about it-no one seemed to know about it.
Well-my superior sleuthing skills reveal its actually a:
Steyr Model 1886 Kropatschek Rifle (8mmX60R)
No doubt I'll have a bear of a time finding ammo.
It needs a bath in the worst way-but I'm VERY impressed with the smooth action of the bolt
Hoadie

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here



Replies:
Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 18 2008 at 4:08pm
Hoadie post some pics mate


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 19 2008 at 12:35am
Geeze Cookie-I'd love to!(If I knew how!) Lookit the trouble I had getting that LAST batch to ya!(You got 'em-didnt ya?Please say yes..it took a lifetime to get THAT done!)
Hoadie (the Techno-saur)

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 19 2008 at 4:10am
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

Geeze Cookie-I'd love to!(If I knew how!) Lookit the trouble I had getting that LAST batch to ya!(You got 'em-didnt ya?Please say yes..it took a lifetime to get THAT done!)
Hoadie (the Techno-saur)
 
Yes so email the new ones


Posted By: Smokey
Date Posted: May 19 2008 at 8:19am
Hoadie,
These guys are pretty knowlegable about the French service rifles:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=20 - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=20
 
And specifically:
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=51909 - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=51909


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 19 2008 at 9:10pm
HEY THANX sMOKEY!

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 19 2008 at 10:25pm
George that was nice of you to say thank you


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 4:13am
Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

George that was nice of you to say thank you


????? whats that all about?


-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 6:12am
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

Originally posted by Cookie Monster Cookie Monster wrote:

George that was nice of you to say thank you


????? whats that all about?
 
I was just being nice saying you were nice!


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 7:32am
Well..its nice to be nice to the nice...now aint that nice? Oiy!(some mothers do have 'em!)

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 10:28am
Guys just start you a My Space and put your Pics on there then copie and post on the forum... as long as they are on your My Space they will stay on the forum.....

-------------
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 11:37am

Rhino it only last for a certian amount of time my "My Space" expert told me AKA oldest daughter



Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

HEY THANX Smokey!


 That's, what CM was saying you were being nice about ! Thing that scares me is I really think you want it!Shocked

   Dave ..the dubius


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 4:29pm
Here's some food for thought !

  France
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/France/Tabatier.htm -
                   
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/France/78Kropat.htm - Mle1878 Kropatchek (11x59R) (Styer Naval Model)
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/France/84FKropat.htm - Mle1884 Kropatchek (11x59R) (Fr. Army)
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/France/85FrKropat.htm - Mle1885 & M1874/85 Kropatchek (11x59R) (2 piece stock)

    And

         
Portugal
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/Portugal/Guedes.htm -
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/Portugal/PortNavyKrop.htm - M1878? M1881? Naval Kropatchek (11x59R) (Styer Naval Model)
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/Portugal/PortKrop.htm - M1886 Mauser-Kropatchek (8x60R)

     Austria
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/Austria/Wanzl.htm -
           http://www.militaryrifles.com/Austria/AustrianKropat.htm - M1881 Kropatchek Naval (11x58R)
            http://www.militaryrifles.com/Austria/86Mann.htm -


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 4:35pm
These are the four types of Port. Krapotcheks described in Rifles of the World.  The artilery carbine, the short rifle, the long rifle and the "colonial" (the long rifle with a hand guard added to aid in controlling convection currents of the hot barrel in the tropics!).  I also included fore and aft group shots and a closeup of the four locks.  The rear sight was changed when they went to smokeless powder and the colonial shows the modified sight while the long rifle has the black powder sight. 

 


From top to bottom:  M1886 Kropatschek Infantry Rifle
                                 M1886/89 Kropatschek Infantry Rifle ("Colonial" rifle)
                                 M1886 Kropatschek Short Rifle
                                 M1886 Kropatschek Carbine
 


The Model 1886/89, sometimes called the Colonial varient, is the infantry rifle fitted with a clip-on handguard from the front of the sight to the middle barrel band.  It is suggested that the handguard was fitted to rifles issued to colonial troops to reduce the effect of sifficulty sighting due to radiated barrel heat.
 


The M1886 Kropatschek Short Rifle.  Virtually identical to the infantry rifle except for its length, the sight and a magazine capacity of 6 rounds; (only 4800 were ever produced).
 


Model 1886 Kropatschek Carbine.  Tubular magazine capacity is 5 rounds.
(only 4000 were produced)
(note turned down bolt handle on the carbine.  The rifles and short rifle each have straight bolt handles.  It doesn't look it but all varieties are fitted with cleaning rods).
 



Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 9:32pm
WOW! Thanx Davie!! Yes-I note they all have the cleaning rod(mine as well).
I note mine has ALL serial numbers matching.
Do YOU have one of these as well?
I will endeavour to take some macro pics & post 'em.Then I'll do it again @ sometime in the future after I've cleaned & "PEEKED" it
Hoadie
P.S: Does this rifle use the same cartridge as the French LaBelle?

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 20 2008 at 10:17pm
Those are some fine looking specimens of rifles


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 21 2008 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

WOW! Thanx Davie!! Yes-I note they all have the cleaning rod(mine as well).
I note mine has ALL serial numbers matching.
Do YOU have one of these as well?
I will endeavour to take some macro pics & post 'em.Then I'll do it again @ sometime in the future after I've cleaned & "PEEKED" it
Hoadie
P.S: Does this rifle use the same cartridge as the French LaBelle?


 No to be honest I'd only ever heard of them until you posted & I decided to research the rifle & one thing led to another .So it's me that should be thanking you !
 
    The Lebell

     It was the first smokeless powder cartridge to be adopted by any country

       
8x50Rmm (8 mm Lebel)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Lebel_8mm_round.jpg">
Type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifle - Rifle
Place of origin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_France.svg">Flag%20of%20France   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France - France
Service history
In service 1886-1944
Used by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France - France , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States - United States , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy - Italy
Wars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I - World War I , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II - World War II
Production history
Variants Balle M, Balle D, Balle N, Balle T, Balle P
Specifications
Case type Rimmed, bottlenecked
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet - Bullet  diameter 8.3 mm (0.33 in)
Neck diameter 8.9 mm (0.35 in)
Shoulder diameter 11.6 mm (0.46 in)
Base diameter 13.8 mm (0.54 in)
Rim diameter 16.0 mm (0.63 in)
Rim thickness 51 mm (2.0 in)
Case length 51 mm (2.0 in)
Overall length 70 mm (2.8 in)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap - Primer  type Large rifle
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
12.8  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gram - g (198  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_%28mass%29 - gr ) Balle D http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_metal_jacket_bullet - FMJ 730  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_per_second - m/s (2,400  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feet_per_second - ft/s ) 3,364  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule - J (2,481  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-pound_force - ft·lbf )





Performance

Balle M

Meters             200     400    600    800    1000    1500    2000
Trajectory (m) 0.14 0.81 2.39 5.27 9.83 31.71 75.61
Velocity (m/s) 488 397 335 290 255 197 160

Balle D

Meters              200     400    600    800    1000    1500   2000
Trajectory (m) 0.12 0.54 1.43 3.01 5.60 18.30 44.0
Velocity (m/s) 607 521 448 388 342 278 240


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 21 2008 at 3:17pm
Tra Dar......

 
8X60R Kropatchek Cases*
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,34.html - Brass / http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/2,41.html - 8-10.75mm Caliber



Item #: 8X60KROP




http://www.buffaloarms.com/favorites.htm?action=additem&itemid=814&destination_page_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ebuffaloarms%2Ecom%2Fbrowse%2Ecfm%2Fbrowse%2Ecfm%2F4%2C814%2Ehtml -

Your Price: $2.40 / Each

Unit:
  Each ($2.40)
 20 ($38.00)
 50 ($94.00)
 100 ($182.00)
Also the dies
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,2395.html - 8X60R Kropatchek/Guedes Die Set, RCBS
Item #: RCB56375
Your Price: $137.99 / Each


Avalible from Buffalo  Arms

   hope that helps

    Dave


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 22 2008 at 8:39am
HOLY SMOKES!! Thanx Davie!!(I dunno where ya find this stuff-but I'm glad ya do!)
I got this rifle given to me along with a WWI Mauser.Both need a bath.I'll get 'em cleaned up when/if I ever get the time to devote.I`ll be needing your expertise on the Mauser as well.
Suffice to say I dony think I`ll be shooting the Kropatchek anytime soon-with low availability of ammo.
Hoadie

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: May 23 2008 at 3:35pm
Suffice to say I don't think I`ll be shooting the Kropatschek anytime soon-with low availability of ammo.

 Yeah she's definitely a Reloading propoiston ! That's why I looked up were to get Cases & dies They did have factory ammo ,but !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! after looking at the price for 20 rnds ,I thought better of printing itShockedShocked

    Your Mauser is a easy one it should be a GEW 98  8x57 (.323)


     Dave  


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 1:24am
Mauser stuff is pretty common.I shud have no troubles there.I'm surprised @ how short they are.This one has an unfinished stock as well.Someone was talking about that a while back on the forum.
Theres some "play" on the Mauser bolt in the full back position.Really havent dug into it that far..but suspect it aint quite right
Hoadie

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 7:16am

I have a couple of mausers and all have play at the back... spanish , Yugo , Bosnian... all have a little play that will freak you out for the first time......but shoot like a dream even though....



-------------
"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields


Posted By: Cookie Monster
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 7:21am
Hoadie German Mausers are becoming very rare


Posted By: Hatchetman
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 11:19am
Even my new manufacture CZ527 and CZ550 have a bit of "mauser wobble" when the bolt is in the full rear position, it is just part of the Mauser 98 design.

-------------
But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



- Sarah Blasko, The Gardens End


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: May 24 2008 at 1:17pm
Well-thats a good thing.One less I have to worry about
Hoadie

-------------
Loose wimmen tightened here



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2024 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net