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.303 bullet ???

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Topic: .303 bullet ???
Posted By: enfieldALEX
Subject: .303 bullet ???
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 5:41am
my buddy seams to think .303 and .303 british bullets are differant calibers i disagree who is correct???



Replies:
Posted By: hp-hobo
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 5:52am
I was under the impression that the terms .303 and .303 British were interchangable, but then I'll let the real experts chime in..
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
 
 


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 6:03am
There was a .303 Savage round.
IIRC it was a US .30 caliber (7.62mm .308")
Maybe that's the source of the debate.
 
You might say that this makes a .303 different from a .303 British.
 
From wikipedia:
"Non-compatibility with .303 British

As with any firearm, it is essential to use the correct type of ammunition. The .303 Savage and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British - .303 British cartridge are not interchangeable with each other. Neither the bullet diameter nor the cartridge dimensions are compatible. Attempting to use .303 Savage ammunition in a firearm chambered for .303 British (or .303 British cartridges in a .303 Savage weapon) is guaranteed to have serious consequences. Such attempts will severely damage the firearm and possibly injure the user."



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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: ducaninfrance
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 7:03am
And not withstanding that, .303 British and .303 Sporting are also different!!




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Duncan.

A DAY WITHOUT WINE IS A DAY WITHOUT SUNSHINE

I don't drink water, fish fornicate in it!

What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch?

W.C. Fields.


Posted By: airforcediver
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 10:26am
Shamu is absolutely correct, in certain states if you walk into a shop and ask for 303 they will give you 303 Savage, and if you ask for 303 british they'll look at you like your speaking in german.  One of the shops I went to in Hawaii, the guy actually continually tried to correct me saying the proper name for the 303 is 303 Savage and that 303 British wasn't a proper term.
 
It was hilarious, not quite as funny as the guy that didn't believe Canada was part of NATO.  But that is a whole N-udder story!!!!  
 


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If all else fails call in a MOAB and call it a day


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 11:49am
seems that 'silly millimeter' thing from the 60s cigaret commercials can take on a whole new meaning here ,
 
ive known the diferance between 303 savage / vs /303 british , but ive never had anyone question me when buying , and i was unaware of the 303 sporting , maybe i need to get out more


Posted By: Hatchetman
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 2:25pm
Either that or the blokes you buy your shooting gear off are not muppets and they actually know their stuff. 

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But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



- Sarah Blasko, The Gardens End


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 7:49pm
I reckon over the years I've seen about 2 or at the most 3  .303 Savages over here in AUZ ! I should say over in Canada & the US there could be some confusion with some people . I think from memory ,that the 303 Savage was named as such to promote it's sales in Canada . Though as pointed out the 303 Brit is a 312 where as the .303 Savage is a .308  & the Savage is  more like a 30-30 in appearance & performance (Not that ,that is a disadvantage )


      Dave  


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 17 2008 at 9:18pm
The .303 Savage is not as popular as it was, so the confusion is dying down a bit as less & less are asking for the round.
15~20 years ago it was a very different story. The Savage round was very popular in some areas and it was normal to be asked which one you wanted if you went and asked for a "box of 303".
 
"And not withstanding that, .303 British and .303 Sporting are also different!!"
 
Please learn me summink. I'm completely unfamiliar with the .303 sporting round. Can you let me know more about it?


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: Hatchetman
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 10:05am
303 Sporting is very similar to the aussie round, the 7.7*54R which is a 303 shortened by 2mm. It was to get around a BS law prohibiting military chambered firearms here some decades back, but that law has long since been defunct.

Basically a gunsmith cut down the barrel thread by two turns and screwed it back in, so the chamber was 2mm shorter. It prevented military ammunition from being used.

Although to make 7.7*54R you just took a surplus 303 round and put it through a die in a reloading press to shorten it 2mm. Makes sense don't it.

The 303 sporting is probably the european version.

I have also been told that back in the day when blokes wanted to make 303-25 and 303-270 they just pulled the projectile from a surplus 303 round and necked the case down with the cordite and primer still on it and seated the appropriate projectile in there.

Gotta love post war ingenuity 


-------------
But the winters coming,

And the snow will cover tracks,

And I'll be watching,

Because I'm hunting you



- Sarah Blasko, The Gardens End


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 3:35pm
303 Sporting is very similar to the aussie round, the 7.7*54R which is a 303 shortened by 2mm. It was to get around a BS law prohibiting military chambered firearms here some decades back, but that law has long since been defunct.

    That Law was only in NSW  & at the time it was also illegal to shoot on Sundays !

     The local Ammo manufacturers used to produce 7.7x54 & they still show up every now & again ! I new a bloke who brought one, it was sold to him as a .303 Brit & had him buggered as to why it wouldn't chamber a round! There ended up about a 1/2 dozen of us "Experts" giving him advice. My Old Man was contacted & asked if he could throw some light on the subject (we thought it was the worst case of Headspace in the history of EnfieldsEmbarrassed) He arranged a time to look at the rifle & made sure all of us were there to see him prove we were wrong ! He inserts a round & it chambers ShockedConfused ,then removes the round & lets us look at it ! Still the penny didn't drop!Embarrassed He just shook his Head & muttered something about Morons & Spastics & explained that if we'd had any brains we would have known it was in fact a 7.7x54 !!!!!! Followed by pointing out we'd all owned one at on time or another (Hey I was innocent  I'd never owned one I'd shot a few but never owned one & that had been years before)


   I have also been told that back in the day when blokes wanted to make 303-25 and 303-270 they just pulled the projectile from a surplus 303 round and necked the case down with the cordite and primer still on it and seated the appropriate projectile in there.


      That was only ever done with the 303-270 ,the 25 came along latter in the piece . But Yeah it was a standard practice. Just after the War to do this

       Dave            


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 9:36pm
Ah. Thanks. I'd never heard of it, probably because it sounds like something unique to Oz to solve a problem.


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)


Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 9:49pm
There is also the 303 Epps up in Canada a sort of 303 Improved just to throw something else in the mix.  The 303 Savage is obsure the round sold well for a while because it was loaded with 190 grain soft points which were not availible for handloading. I knew a guy who bought the ammo just to pull the bullets they shot better than anything else in his 30-06.

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Have a Nice Day
If already having a nice day please disregard


Posted By: hoadie
Date Posted: December 19 2008 at 11:46pm
I've never heard of-or seen-any animal known as the .303 Epps...& I live in Canada(I can prove it,by all the snow I'm under!!)
Hoadie(the Snowman)

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Loose wimmen tightened here


Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: December 20 2008 at 11:43am
I have seen an article on it some place in the past.... cant recall exactly.
I did ask the same question some time back about the .303 savage only because iI found a great deal on a 1000 rounds of .303 savage. and allmost bought them.... untill I asked whats the difference on this forum..
I think it was Dave who told me the difference.... or Maybe Hoadie ... or possibly Tony... maybe it was all three...
I saved my money and bought some Mill-Surp for 2 x the price....


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"White Rhino"

"Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields


Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: December 23 2008 at 8:17am
i knew there was once a law reguarding military cartriges and that a lot of rifles were refitted for alternative cartriges , but i too appreciate the education on the 303 sporting cartrige


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 24 2008 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by hoadie hoadie wrote:

I've never heard of-or seen-any animal known as the .303 Epps...& I live in Canada(I can prove it,by all the snow I'm under!!)
Hoadie(the Snowman)



     Mate. The Epps is defiantly a Canadian born Round  From what I can gather as I have never seen the round in the Flesh ,is that it is a 303 brit blown out to increase case capasity & has a much straighter case  Steve Redgwell is the Bloke to look up about it .

      Dave


Posted By: Cottage Hill Bill
Date Posted: June 25 2014 at 3:44am
Even though this is an old thread I'm going to throw in a summary because this thread shows up when someone searches on some of the .303 variations.
.303 British - .311 diameter bullet - A UK and Commonwealth military round used in the Lee-Enfield rifles and various other military weapons from 1888 until the 1980s. (in some countries) Popular in Canada as a hunting round because of the avaibility of surplus Enfields after WWII.
 
.303 Savage - .308 diameter bullet - A sporting cartridge developed by Arthur Savage for his model 1899 lever action rifle. Ballistically similar to a hot 30-30 but was factory loaded with a heavier bullet. Very popular hunting round in the US and parts of Canada from 1899 until the 50s/60s. Gradually lost ground to the 300 Savage and then the 308 Winchester rounds. Now hard to find factory ammo.
 
.303 Epps - .311 bullet - A .303 British variation invented by Canadian gunsmith Ellwood Epps - Not seen much outside of Canada, similar but not identical to .303 Improved
 
.303 Improved - .311 bullet - A .303 British variation with reduced case taper
 
.303 Sporting - .311 bullet - Shortened .303 British case to circumvent various laws banning ownership of firearms in military calibers. This may be the French version.
 
7.7X54R - .311 bullett - Australian version of .303 Sporting


Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: June 25 2014 at 5:47am
Yup. "Back in the day" It was a popular pastime making "wildcat" Improved rounds by blowing out existing cases into something with a bit more powder capacity, & so a bit more velocity.

Look in old reloading manuals & you'll find all sorts of "Improved" cases with exotic sounding names like "219 zipper, improved" & so on. There was even a joke designation the ".22 Eargesplitten Loudenboomer", which was a real cartridge!


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Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force)



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