303.35 No1 Mk3 Progress report
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Topic: 303.35 No1 Mk3 Progress report
Posted By: Jacko
Subject: 303.35 No1 Mk3 Progress report
Date Posted: November 20 2010 at 8:00am
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G/Day folks
Things are slowly starting to happen with my project No1 Mk 3 conversion to 303.35 / 35 Territory. I've been plagued with delays, mostly with Shipping. The cost has been mounting also but I have this covered, should not be any surprises now. All and all this build is adding up to an indecent amount of money to spend on a 1942 Lithgow Sporter. Not concerned as I have wanted a customised Wildcat cartridge SMLE for over 20 years.
I ordered my barrel from a local Aussie company, Total Solution Engineering in early september - it arrived this week. I'm quickly learning to halve the time I'm originally told, add 5 then double it for delivery.
Recknagel Iron Sights where ordered in early sept - they where backordered and dispatched in 3 shipments, received the last of the order this week
And ordered my scope mount in late September, it seems to have been lost in transit. I'd like to thank Richard from Special Interest Arms for despatching another no questions asked. If the US postal service does it's job it will be here late next week.
I can't afford a decent scope and scope rings right now but wanted the scope mount fitted when the rest of the rifle is being done. What I like about the SIA mount is that it's grooved to allow use of Iron sight in the mean while
I am using a No1 Mk3 action that I swapped in exchange for some custom leatherwork off a mate who was using this heavily bubbered 1942 Lithgow as a knock about scrub rifle. The bore was black, quite amaazing it shot as well as it did.
I've picked up a as new never fitted ATI synthetic stock real cheap that will suffice until I can afford a nicely figured / checkered timber stock along the lines of a Lee Speed.
 I have used a set of .358 Winchester dies that have a tapered expander to neck up some Remington brass, they all necked up fine. The cases shortened as expected when I necked them up and I have settled on a trim to length of 55.60mm / 2.188" The OAL 76.90mm / 3.027" I'll mess about with this once I have the finished rifle.
I'm pretty disappointed in the quality of the .303 brass on the market, seems very thin. I have 40 once fired Highland .303 cases that I've necked up also - it is quite a deal thicker and seems higher quality. I wish I could buy this Highland brass locally but it is not available in Australia. I have supplied my Gunsmith with several Remington brass dummy cartridges for him to set up the neck and throat on.
I have supplied the Gunsmith with a set of Lee RGB dies that will be reamed when my chamber is done and the 35 cal fittings from the .358 Win dies will be swapped across. I need to get a neck only sizing die, again I'm thinking a .358 Winchester die could be used with no modification and carefull adjustment
I am using 225grain Sierra Gamekings for the initial load development. I've found some old load data using IMR 3031, 41 gn under a 208 gr cast bullet for 2150fps and have been suppliedload data a couple of other fella's I've tracked down that have 303.35's are using. ADI AR2208 seems to be the powder of choice and 42 gr should give me about 2200fps. I've also researched some .303 220grain bullet loads for cross reference. I'll be backing them off a little and looking for safe accurate loads. Not interested in hotrodding them
My Gunsmith tells me I should have it in 8 weeks , so applying my new rule 8 - 4 + 5 = 9 x2 = 18 so I'll have it March next year. - I hope not, I'll kid myself and say I'll have it mid January 2011.
regards Jacko
------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Replies:
Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: November 20 2010 at 9:50am
| looking forward to the photos |
Posted By: SW28fan
Date Posted: November 20 2010 at 11:42am
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Interesting project. I find that Privi brass is one of the best availible. American brass is a bit under sized though Remington is better than Winchester. I will not discuss S&B other than to say they might as well have made it bredan primed. ------------- Have a Nice Day If already having a nice day please disregard |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 5:41am
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Evening folks. Called into Pine Rivers Gunshop this morning for a further progress report on how my 303.35 is going. 2 weeks ago they had not started it, today the rifle is sitting in a job tray, with everything done except the barrel and action blued. Drilled and tapped for the Recknagel Sights, scope mount, barrel docked to 22", crowned and most importantly chambered. Its all been fitted together and checked out fine and the synthetic stock's barrel channel opened out. They will not be blue it for a few more weeks yet as they have a couple more jobs that will be ready for the Blueing tank soon. So with luck I'll have shortly after Christmas. Alan was telling me this morning that he run a file over the base of the Lee RGB dies and it did not touch it. He said he is not willing to run a reamer into the dies but instead will use either a masonry bit sharpened to a specific angle to assist with reaming the die or a Titanium drill bit. He told me the neck / throat of my chamber is .385 and the reamer was .380. From memory my Dummy rounds where .378 / .379. A chap who has a 303.35 and given me some advice and loads warned me the only issue he has with his rifle is that the mob in SA that chambered his rifle have the neck / throat quite oversize and his fired cases are .388 / .389 so he has to work his brass more than he likes to neck size. Still no photo's, when the Rifles finished. I remembered the barrels No 5 profile much larger than it actually is which is somewhat of a relief as I do like a little heft in my Rifles for Off hand shooting but not full on muzzle heavy which is what my hazy memeory had imagined in the dimness of time. I have been thinking about attempting to make my own Timber stock from Queensland Maple as a link to the Rifles past, perhaps join the local woodworking club etc so I have access to quaity tools. I would try to replicate a Lee Speed stock. In the mean while I will reshape and refinish the military stockset and see if I'm happy with this instead of the Synthetic stock as a stopgap. A mate has stepped in and attempted to motivate my in next project - he gave me 50 rounds of loaded 45.70 ammo , 90 odd once fired cases, a red bullet lube and a hundred or so 500 gr cast projectiles. AAAAAGGGGGHHHHH - The paints not even dry on this one. After less than 12 hours my memory is fading, should have written the details down at the time so if something does not ring true it's my lack of knowledge and my memory. A chap thats lives about 100 miles from me has offered I spend some time with him and he'll teach me the ins and outs of bullet casting. He say's he has a .359 230 gr mould which sounds about right for this rifle. He also has offered me the use of some of his other moulds for my .357 mag and .44 mag Lever rifles. There is so much to learn about these old skills and the rifles they are used around, I'm really enjoying the learning curve and the generous offers and skill sharing I've received. regards Jacko ------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 5:50am
I'll second the Prvi brass, noticeably better than RemChester's best offerings. I'm not sure what brand it is marketed as in Oz, but the "PPU", or (these are Cyrillic letters, reproduced as best possible on a qwerty keyboard) "mmy" headstamps should be a clue. Prvi markets under lots of different brands in the US including Prvi Partizan, Wolf Gold, Igmann (almost, if you find Igman brass you're fine), & several house brands. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 7:35pm
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Australia is a very small market and we are often ignored or payed lip service too by the Firearms indusry. If it does make it Down to us it is double to triple the price of in the USA for example. PPU markets under the Highland banner and is only available as loaded rounds to the best of my knowledge. I have looked extensively. I have 40 odd once fired .303 Highland cases that I've necked up Likely I will buy 3 or 4 more boxes of loaded cartridges and shoot em off in my old Lithgow I sold to a good mate. Expensive way to get good brass but 100 cases should last me quite a while if I'm smart with my reloading. I'll save it until I've shoot through the Remington brass I have. I'll find out soon enough if the Remington brass I have is going to be worthwhile.
regards Jacko ------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 9:05pm
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Can you import fired, unprimed brass into Oz? (Here it is, legally just more scrap metal for example.) If so you can probably find once-fired reloadable brass on the net here in the US & ship to you in bulk. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: December 16 2010 at 10:11pm
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G/Day Shamu you need a B709 Import permit to bring brass into Australia, pretty sure this means I can only purchase from an OS dealer and not privately , I do stand to be corrected. I do know that a great many USA dealers will not sell to oversea's countries due to restriction placed upon them by your State Dept and the hassle of dealing with such import permits. There is likely a State Dept regulation to cover deals between private citizens also, again I stand to be corrected.
I did recently import a scope mount for this SMLE and have imported other bits and pieces like Open Sights from some Dealers. Some won't look at an OS order. So like mosr government regulation thereseems no consistency in application.
regards Jacko ------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: DRC
Date Posted: December 17 2010 at 2:48am
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I don't know what price you pay for PPU ammo over in Oz but here in the motherland (The home of cricket) it's less than half the price of Remmington. I buy as much as I can just for the excellent brass. In 22/250 cal. I find the 55gr. FMJ BT more accurate than anything I can load.
I see our team have decided to give your guys a head start.
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Posted By: Shamu
Date Posted: December 17 2010 at 5:29am
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Its the same here in the US. Remington & Winchester are about double the price of Prvi & it's better brass as well. I usually buy the 150 Gr SP load, which shoots fine by itself, & then reload after I use it once. ------------- Don't shoot till you see the whites of their thighs. (Unofficial motto of the Royal Air Force) |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: December 17 2010 at 11:31am
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I'll cut you some slack with the cricket DRC as we have kicked the worlds backside for a considerable period of time. Great to see the Poms playing good cricket again. I luv the Barmy Army, great sledging on their part. I enjoyed listening yesterday on the radio as they sang - God Save YOUR Gracious Queen and a host of unprintable taunts that crept across the Airways from time to time. And it's all done in great humour, not a sign of any Holigans - excellent.
Last time I looked at my local Gunshop .303 Highland loaded ammo is about $26 a box of 20 and other brands about $35. Depending on where you live in the country you can pay $10 to $15 more a box. A pkt of 50 new Remington or Winchester cases costs between $48 and $52. Projectiles can cost over $1 each but usually run about 70 cents and primers about $40 a thousand. Powder is about $48 a pound. What gets up my nose is that many Hodgdon Powders are made in Australia by ADI and it's cheaper oversea's by a considerable margain.
regards Jacko ------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: DRC
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 3:56am
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Jacko, you have a great country and are a great people, it's a shame you pay so much for your ammo. Just drove home past an Autrailian friend our ours pub (Called 'Aussie Beach'). It's dark, -3 and snowing. There he is, pony tail, loud Hawaiian shirt and shorts on the roadside outside his pub cooking on a barbeque under an umbrella. Absolutely marvelous! ------------- We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go. Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow. Across that angry or that glimmering sea |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 4:36pm
DRC - classic  , was he wearing thong's, the real type, not the American understanding 
regards Jacko ------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: DRC
Date Posted: December 18 2010 at 5:00pm
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Desert boots mate - it is winter after all. ------------- We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go. Always a little further: it may be beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow. Across that angry or that glimmering sea |
Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: August 23 2013 at 8:18pm
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Hi there Jacko I have just joined this forum I am a keen Lee Enfield owner and sporterizer if thats a word I have owned a 303-35 improved for many years and was interested to read about yours how is it going. I am building a 375x56 styer at the moment on a Le1* action. Good luck regards Musso ------------- musso |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 24 2013 at 8:10pm
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I'd like to hear more about that 375x56 styer. The 303-35 is interesting enough and is something I would like. I am considering doing a 40-303 but I'll see what barrel comes up first, 35 or 375 or 40. 303-35 does seem to be the best compromise though and it has a small shoulder to headspace on for better case life although the lower pressure of a straightwall might be a consideration. Anyway, I'm real interested in the outcome of the 303-35 project. ------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: LE Owner
Date Posted: August 25 2013 at 5:52am
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American .303 brass is not so much "undersized" as it is closer to the original specifications. Most Lee Enfield chambers are on the loose side , mainly due to the lousy quality of most WW1 era .303 cartridge cases. Ross rifles with chambers cut to Royal engineer specifications required an enlarging reamer to chamber British supplied .303 ammo. When used with Canadian manufactured ammo no enlarging operation was necessary. A collector of British double rifles once told me that the milsurp .303 ammo he had once tried was so over sized that his antique double chambered in .303 wouldn't close on it, mainly due the rim thickness. From what I've heard original specs allowed for a .056 rim thickness. Much milspec .303 has an average rim thickness closer to the .064 maximum. Remington brass seems a bit better on the whole than Winchester brass. I had some Winchester .303 factory loaded brass that had lengthwise splits on first firing in rifles with reasonably tight chambers. Privi Partizan makes cartridge cases for military use with sporting use secondary. They also sell cartridge cases to other European cartridge manufacturers. Their cases are drawn to military specs so these are best for military chambers and generous headspace of milsurp rifles. Other companies that still produce ammo for use with the still widely available .303 chambered Machine guns such as Vickers and Bren no doubt produce the toughest cases available. Theres a sporting rifle standard and a milspec standard for most ammunition. If all ammo were loaded to a milspec standard all cases would be tougher, and sporting ammunition might be a hair less consistently accurate, not seal quite so well with lighter loads and not be so well suited to the older sporting rifles. Milspec cases are probably best for necking up to form a wildcat case, otherwise thinner commercial neck wallss might be drawn to thin and crumple or become brittle. Annealing is a good idea in any case.
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Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: August 26 2013 at 4:56pm
I am currently building a new 303-35 and have the barrel I originally used in my 303-35 rifle that I would consider selling, the case that we have developed is improved slightly at the shoulder as can be seen in the photo. the first case from the left is standard 303 the 303-35 then with the projectile is our 303-35 improved. the barrel is a heavy 303 barrel that has been re-bored to .358 and is 20" long. ------------- musso |
Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: August 26 2013 at 8:30pm
Hi there 303Guy here is a photo off my 375X56R on the left is a std 8x56R Styer case next a neck sized case then a fire formed case with a 225gn Hornady projectile next is our 303-35 imp case with a 225gn speer projectile and next is a std 303 British case. ------------- musso |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: August 27 2013 at 7:38am
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Thanks. The improved 35 does seem the way to go but for me the simple 303-35 would be just dandy. I'm not looking for high velocity and the small shoulder suited case fillers/wads better (not that it would make a lot of difference) but I'm in it for cast or paper patched bullets. ------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: October 04 2013 at 8:07am
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Morning Folks, I pop in from time to time and was quite surprised to see this thread still active. Forgive me for not posting that I had long finished this project, I thought I had posted a progress report. Since this photo I have fitted a Leupold VX3 1.5 - 5 x 20 Scope as recoil smashed up the Chinese made Tasco Worldclass 2-7 x 32 Scope on 3 occasions. To Tasco's credit they honoured the Lifetime Warrantee and repaired it twice for me and on the 3rd occasion managed to track down an old Japanese model, rebuilt it and gave me that in it's stead. In the mean while I bought the Leupold and mounted the Tasco on my heavier recoiling 45.70 Lever with no further issue's http://s243.photobucket.com/user/jackoarcher/media/Scoped.jpg.html" rel="nofollow"> Back to the 35.303. Originally I was developed a load of 225 gr Sierra Gamekings over a load of 44 gr of ADI 2208 [Varget] CCI LR Primers Remington Brass and after running in the barrel was rewarded with regular 3/4 MOA groups over a bench and a couple of times the same using a Bipod, astounding for a No1 Mk3 - the Gunsmith that screwed the Rifle together for me has done a brilliant Job I got sick and tired of paying $1per Jacketed Projectile so bought myself a Cast Bullet Engineering 358250 Mould. Lubed with White Label 2700 and Gas Checked they weigh 260 grains. http://s243.photobucket.com/user/jackoarcher/media/35303andCBE358250.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  I cast using straight Wheel Weight alloy, air cooled and then size to .359, Gator Gas Checks, 38 grains of ADI 2206H [H4895] CCI LR Primer for a Chronied 1885FPS. This Load gives a 3 FPS variation across 5 Shots. It is a devastating medium Game load. Other Projects have kept a Timber Stock on the back burner. Only last week I was mulling over rechambering this Rifle to an Improved version but decided it does all I want and more as it is I am intrigued with the 375 x 56 Steyr conversion, please tell me more. I was advised before I started this build that my original concept of a 375.303 or a .444 Marlin was problematic. The Gunsmith was saying when you all but remove the shoulder from the .303 Brit as is the case necking up to .375 or mess with the case Taper magazine feeding becomes unreliable. Is this the case ? as I have read several examples recently that contradict this, inspires me again to eventually commission another custom Lee Enfield regards Jacko ------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: October 05 2013 at 7:50pm
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Hi there Jacko I have had a 303-35 for quit a while strangely enough my rifle looks very much like yours mine is on a #4mk1 action and a slightly improved case my load is a 225 sierra gameking and 50 gn 2208 giving a velocity just over 2400 fps getting the rifle to feed the slightly fatter case just took a bit off fiddling but they feed well now . The 9.5x56R is a much fatter case and my son and I are working on them now we just took them out today for the first time working up a load at the moment we are up to 225 gn hornady projectile with 58 gns off 2208 giving around 2500 fps no signs off pressure and still plenty off room in the case .I haven't played with the magazine yet my rifle is built on a 1900 BSA Le1* action I will post some pictures. a future LE project will be a 405 Winchester on a #4 action I think that magazine and feeding will be a challenge.Cast bullets are something we are getting into the cost off these bigger projectiles is a bit horrific. Good to here about your projects. regards Musso ------------- musso |
Posted By: Jacko
Date Posted: October 06 2013 at 6:59am
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Thankyou for those details musso, very interesting ! I got as high as 45.5 gr of 2208 when I was developing 225 gr Jacketed Proj loads, still had easy Bolt lift and extraction but groups opened up. 44 gr just struck a real sweet spot, never got around to chrony but I guess around 2100fps. I have a 22" Barrel I will be watching for a thread on your Project. regards Jacko
------------- "To my deep mortification my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' " -Charles Darwin |
Posted By: 1952musso
Date Posted: November 22 2014 at 3:34pm
Hi Jacko I just posted some photos on another post I thought I would add them here too the top rifle is my 375x56 and the lower is my 303-35 some other photos on 375 flanged nitro express page .regards Musso ------------- musso |
Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: April 06 2015 at 12:37pm
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I am wondering if some of you's guys from AUS can give me some info on powder equivalents. IE: what is ADI 2208? I know ADI 2206 is H4895 Is there an Eq for IMR 3031 or IMR 4064 Most if not all of the powders sold by Hodgdons are made in AUS so I think there are other numbers applied to common for the US, powders. Randy ------------- It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do. |
Posted By: hybridfiat
Date Posted: April 06 2015 at 8:54pm
| Great project. I hope it shoots well. I use Hornady 200gn FX bullets in the Martini Enfield .35 Whelen. They are a fine projie. You'll get a few more FPS for the same pressures and get longer range. I just drive mine out at 2700fps but they hit like a steam train. |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: April 06 2015 at 10:28pm
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I really like the look of that 375x57R Styer and 303-35 Imp. AS30N = Clays Trailboss = Trailboss (IMR) AR2205 = H4227 AR2207 = H4198 AR2219 = H322 Bench Mark 2 = BENCHMARK (close to IMR 3031 and could be the same?) Bench Mark 8208 = IMR 8208 AR2206 close to to BLC (2) AR2206H = H4895 AR2208 = Varget AR2209 = H4350 AR2213C = H4831 AR2217 = H1000 AR2225 = Retumbo AR2218 = H50BMG Note that AR2206 and AR2206H are not the same but are close as I understand it. ------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: 303Guy
Date Posted: April 06 2015 at 10:34pm
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Musso, I notice that the rear sight 'ears' have been removed. That's OK but there is actually a practical use for those 'ears'. http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-496F_zps67a8f01d.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  Similarly the hole in an SMLE charger bridge (and people think it was a manufacturing process hole or for breaking off the firing pin in event of imminent capture) 
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/303Guy/media/MVC-601F_zpsfedf497d.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  That's a Lithgow 303-25. Great cartridge. The clip is on the end of a shock cord and gets clipped onto the strap of my back back. That allows me to carry the rifle muzzle down and hands free. To shoulder the rifle, all that is required is to bring it up to the shoulder. If time allows, it is quick and and easy to unclip. The muzzle devices ensure no debris gets into the muzzle and no scope gets thumped onto the eyebrow. Not that the 30-25 has much recoil to start with but the 303 is a dream to shoot.
------------- 303Guy |
Posted By: W.R.Buchanan
Date Posted: April 07 2015 at 11:00am
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Peter Thanks for the info. It makes it much easier to deal with load suggestions if you have the crossovers in hand. Now I do. We run into the same problem over here as all the Winchester Brand powders are nothing more than Hodgdons Powders with different labels. IE W748 is BLC/2, W231 is HP38, and so on. I emailed Woodleigh for info on loading 215 gr Woodleigh RNSP's and all the data they gave me had Aussie numbers. Now I can actually decipher that data. Randy ------------- It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do. |