1919 Lithgow
Printed From: Enfield-Rifles.com
Category: Enfields
Forum Name: Enfield Rifles
Forum Description: Anything that has to do with the great Enfield rifles!
URL: http://www.enfield-rifles.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=6292
Printed Date: March 26 2026 at 3:39pm
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Topic: 1919 Lithgow
Posted By: Rockape2
Subject: 1919 Lithgow
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 3:56am
A new addition to our Enfield family, I'm looking for any information on the z131 stamps on the underside of the bolt and rear of the action, many thanks. What do you think?         
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Replies:
Posted By: Rockape2
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 4:11am
Sorry thats z151 stamps not z131 
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Posted By: 5thBatt
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 5:16am
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The Z151 is the batching or PAA (Proofed Action Assembly) number, if these numbers match (as yours does) means you have the original bolt to your rifle, the reason for the number is to keep the two together untill they were serial numbered. ------------- "the master has spoken" if he's the master, then I'm Dr Who. |
Posted By: Rockape2
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 5:58am
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Hi 5th Batt, Ah I see many thanks. I would be very interested in where and what history this rifle has been through. The fore end and hand guards are replacements (when unknown) the wood is stamped SLAZ41 the Butt has a 7/46 date which suggests refurb at that time, the nose cap is numbered to match the rifle and stamped SAF the rear sight protector stamped OA rear sight is original matching every other part has the Lithgow star with an A in the middle, even the oil bottle is lithgow stamped. Would anyone know what the number 3 over 98813 over a faint NSW (New South Wales) means.
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Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 7:40am
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The 3 over 98813 is 3rd Military District in Victoria and 98813 is the inventory number. Both were applied to a previous rifle when it was issued to that state. The 7/46 doesn't indicate refurb but the R over MA does and the date indicates when it was done. I have some doubt whether this rifle was ever refurbed and therefore question the origins of the butt. |
Posted By: muffett.2008
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 6:40pm
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It's a pity your pics are so oversize, it just takes too long for them to download, days I have, weeks I don't.
The butt is certainly interesting, I would appreciate closer pic's, resized smaller of course, at the moment I'm slightly(mostly in agreement with Andrew) it seems to have been in too many places at the same time and still with it's original barrel.
Just as an aside Stuart and Andrew, I have this year gap in my lot, just in case you have a spare  |
Posted By: Rockape2
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 9:11pm
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he!!o Homer & Muffett.2008. Thank you for your replies, now I have some questions if I may. "Both applied to a previous rifle when it was issued to that state" So the butt is off an older rifle any idea of a date from the stamps? What happened to that rifle to allow the butt to be reused. "Doubt this rifle was ever refurbed" Does that mean it's still all original, but now worn, how would a refurb rifle differ from this? re blued metalwork? Would the fore end and hand guards not have been changed during refurb, slaz41 during WWII maybe? "It seems to have been in too many places at the same time and still with it's original barrel" How can you tell where it's been? Is it unusual to find one with the original barrel? My other Enfields are more modern from the late 50's-80's so if I'm asking the wrong questions, sorry. When I saw this rifle and the numbers matched (original stamps) the wood the barrel/bore and it was a bargain for UK prices just had to have it. Will try to do smaller pic's what area would you like to have pictures of. Thanks.
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Posted By: BlackAck
Date Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:44pm
| Tasty |
Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 7:58am
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Muffer I just sold one of the best early maple rifle's I've owned and dated 1919. Sorry. |
Posted By: 5thBatt
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 8:10am
& so you should be, trust you didn't sell it to Simon. Out of luck when it comes to me also Muff, i'm still after a early MkIII* Lithgow for myself so if you find 2......... ------------- "the master has spoken" if he's the master, then I'm Dr Who. |
Homer wrote:Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 8:45am
Your rifle was issued to the 6th Military District in the state of Tasmania indicated by the 6 on the top side of the action accompanied by the inventory number. The rifle that the butt was originally attached was issued to 3MD in Victoria. Can't see a manufacture date on the butt but it is a MkIII* so it would have been assembled between 1918 to 1922. I suspect because of the high number it was issued after the war. I don't think your rifle was refurbished at the time indicated on the butt, or at all because it still has its original 1920 dated barrel and the metal finish is not parkerised. Also it is highly unlikely a 41 dated forend would have been assembled to the rifle in any post war refurb. No one could say with any certainty when the forend was fitted but it could have been put on by anyone at any time, even last week maybe. Its become fairly evident to me, from what I see and read on these forums, restoring banged up old sporters with mismatched parts has become more of a focus than collecting good original rifles. They certainly generate more discussion. This murks the water when trying to determine a rifles possible history. |
Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 8:52am
5th, apart from the odd 1934/35 date, Ive got nothing left between 1921 and 1941. 55 rifles gone in about 4 months including six 1953's. |
Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:03am
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Just had another quick look at the photo's. The butt looks walnut and could be off an old English rifle, in which case it could be off one of the rifles gifted to Australia by the British after the war. In any case I doubt it was assembled to this rifle in 1946 as indicated by the butt stamps. |
Posted By: 5thBatt
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:07am
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"Its become fairly evident to me, from what I see and read on these forums, restoring banged up old sporters with mismatched parts has become more of a focus than collecting good original rifles. They certainly generate more discussion." I have noticed this trend as well Homer. Rockape2 The best advice i can give you is listen & learn from what Homer has to say, i already notice some poor info given you on the other thread on this rifle on another forum. ------------- "the master has spoken" if he's the master, then I'm Dr Who. |
Posted By: 5thBatt
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 9:27am
Curious as to why but feel i dont want to know why, just hope everything is fine with you brother. ------------- "the master has spoken" if he's the master, then I'm Dr Who. |
Posted By: Rockape2
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 4:06pm
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Hi Homer & 5thBatt. Thank you both for your time and information about my rifle, I have to say I'm very happy with it. |
Posted By: muffett.2008
Date Posted: October 01 2013 at 7:16pm
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All the same, it's a nice looking rifle, 5th, Andrew seems to having a big cleanout, trouble is he only offers me the dregs.
I will admit I have been thinking along similar lines, just trying to correlate all the little details on some early Lithgows, maybe you had better help me out with the 13/14 stampings I'm asking about on Gunboards.
Illness, old age and an uninterested adult family have me thinking that it's time I pulled all that cash back in, but it will be the rest of the world collection first.  |
Posted By: White Rhino
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 1:40am
Im hoping My Son will start appreciating My old rifles again.. If he dont Son in Law is already starting to eye up the Enfields !!! LOL!!! Its taking some time , But he is slowly starting to acquire some taste !!!! ------------- "White Rhino" "Everybody's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer." --W. C. Fields |
Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:56am
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Sorry muffer it might have seemed that way but really it all happened very quickly. A few blokes came through and made very good offers. I only advertised one rifle and that was after everything was sold and for fun really. Ten years collecting some of the rarest lithgows gone in a few weeks, but I feel great. |
Posted By: 5thBatt
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 1:48pm
------------- "the master has spoken" if he's the master, then I'm Dr Who. |
Posted By: Homer
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 2:16pm
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All but two, 1913 and 1938. Could have had both those years but the ones I came across were very poor and way too much money. Still got a nice assortment of about 30 rifles dated between 1914 and 1921, all lithgows of course and another dozen or so very nice coachwood rifles from WW2. And six Q^P's. If thats not enough enfields to enjoy, I'm kidding myself :) |
Posted By: muffett.2008
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 6:17pm
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Big hiccup is if you collect Lithgows you have to be prepared to pay, it's not like they made millions like the others.
Factor in two major wars, several police actions and the anti gun push and those not so rare years suddenly seem good, the surviving ones of the rarer years you can just about count without taking your socks off.
Looking at the sportered ones makes me cry tears of blood. |
Posted By: 5thBatt
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 7:50pm
 ------------- "the master has spoken" if he's the master, then I'm Dr Who. |
Posted By: Rockape2
Date Posted: October 02 2013 at 10:34pm
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Looking at the sportered ones makes me cry tears of blood. Over here we find early matching Lithgows and other SMLE Enfields still with the volley sights deactivated because they can get more money for a wall hanger than a live one and these before deactivation still had good head space and bores. Makes one cry
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Posted By: A square 10
Date Posted: October 09 2013 at 8:28am
| all this talk of downsizing makes me reflect on the joy involved in seeking out the purchases and the sorrow at parting with them , its sad our heirs dont get wise in our lifetime , |